Trade Jobs Are DYING OUT...

Anonymous

Trade Jobs Are DYING OUT...

https://youtu.be/6DRm86qmXbs?si=BXi<wbr>150ZR0VYKCqdQ

Why is this so ????
>inb4
>yea low pay is going to be one of the main factors.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201<wbr>8/04/25/605092520/high-paying-trade<wbr>-jobs-sit-empty-while-high-school-g<wbr>rads-line-up-for-university

>>2791783
Maybe if they paid more and didn’t expect 22 year olds to have 8 years experience.

>>2791783
It’s pretty simple. Tradesmen usually take advantage of unskilled people. Young people actually want to do trades but don’t want to be taken advantage off. You can’t expect me to know everything if I’m a beginner. If you do get a job with these tradesmen, they usually yell at you and they’re pretty condescending. You don’t give people chances you expect everyone to be up to your expectations on the first day.

imagine actually having to work with 4channers.
fat, fucked up teeth, retarded
imagine having to go to work with retards everyday tolerating them
it's the primary reason the trades are dying

>>2791783
Your npr article about high paying jobs changes nothing.
Companies bitch and moan about being unable to hire people or talk about how much their willing to pay but it's all lies.
I remember applying to BNSF a couple years ago when they were offering $8500 sign on bonuses and paid training for 30+ openings. I was immediately rejected, no interview. I gaurantee almost all of these companies get plenty of applicants.
And then my experience has been that when you do get hired, you will get paid much less than the advertised pay and raises will be much fewer and smaller than advertised.

So why are trades dying?
>yes, really, shit pay
>dealing with shitty bosses
>dealing with shitty contractors
>dealing with shitty customers
>dealing with other shitty tradies
>dealing with shady business practices like not getting the pay or benefits or breaks promised in your employment contract/state law

Then you have classic boomer retardation to blame:
>why hire and train white people to do a skilled job when I can just pay these illegal beaner crackheads $5/hr to do the same thing?
>wow look how fast they work!
>hey how come skilled craftsmanship is disappearing and everything is built so shoddy these days?
>they just don't make them like they used to

That's why heavy industry is where it's at. It's like a trade but the people you work with respect you and don't hire illegal immigrants.

>>2791854
You forgot
>hires the cheapest employees
>Why is everyone so lazy and keeps missing work?

>>2791783
>Why is this so ????

it's not the pay, it's the State licensing that's a barrier to even get into these jobs

In most States to get into Plumbing, HVAC or Electrical you have to first be an apprentice for 3 or more years before you can even take the licensing test.
Problem being very few established trades companies hire on apprentices.
They'll hire on employees, who can work under the license of the company owner, but that's not a path to be able to get your own license.
And even if they do hire on apprentices, the apprentice gets burned out being treated as a nearly unpaid slave.
And if the apprentice leaves that company and goes to another company, their apprenticeship time starts all over again, so if the apprentice leaves a company with only 1 year left of a 3 year apprenticeship, they start back over for another 3 years at the new company.
Companies know this, they know that the apprentices don't want to loose the time they've put in, so the apprentices get treated like crap.
Even then, if you manage to make it through all the hurdles to get the Master Tradesman to sign off on you having completed your apprenticeship, you then have to pay several thousands of dollars to the State to take the test to get licensed.
Then there's the insurance, if you try to strike out on your own as a licensed sole operator the insurance is CRIPPLINGLY expensive.

tl:dr the boomers created a protectionist system that bars entry of younger competition.
it's why the vast majority of the trades companies are family operations, father to son, father to son, etc.

locally we had a Joint Vocational school the shut down it's Trades program as the local trades companies just entirely stopped hiring apprentices from the JVS, and without the trades companies hiring on apprentices, the JVS couldn't justify keeping those courses going.

>>2791783
They're considered low-class.
The image of the highly competent, sharp, tall, handsome white tradie is a relic of the past. It isn't 1950 anymore. Zoomers want to be pornographers for a living. Just a chasm of difference.

>>2791887
>>2791854
Forgot to add the fact that all these trades are expecting everyone to already be “skilled” before they even start! It’s too much pressure anymore to even bother trying when they’re just going to trash talk you and treat you like dirt. No wonder the trades are dying.

>>2791887
Protectionism dates to guilds which were the early way to slow race to the bottom.

>>2791943
>No wonder the trades are dying.
You people are so fucking retarded you just brainless repeat retarded shit you heard someone else say, most of the posters on this site have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
What does it even mean to say "the trades are dying" if there is work to be done then someone will be paid to do the work. The only way "the trades could be dying" if there was no work to be done.
And the reason you got filtered is because they don't want to spend valuable time training some vocal fry zoomer faggot who they can tell won't make it anyways.

>>2791887
>it's not the pay, it's the State licensing that's a barrier to even get into these jobs
>tl:dr the boomers created a protectionist system that bars entry of younger competition.

Very well put and accurate. Even with good intentions, licensing has become just a state revenue apparatus. In my state the GC test is OPEN BOOK. You just need the money and basically a sponsor(another licensed contractor).
The current system keeps wages high but shuts off a lot entry. I know a ton of guys that are licensed, just not in the work they're actually doing. Because a "General Contractors" license is anything but "General."

>>2791783
>locally we had a Joint Vocational school the shut down it's Trades program as the local trades companies just entirely stopped hiring apprentices from the JVS, and without the trades companies hiring on apprentices, the JVS couldn't justify keeping those courses going.
When I was in high school years ago they had a whole vocational wing. Mainly for auto mechanics and agriculture. You used to be able to earn credits towards a vocation and transfer over after high school. I'm not even sure if local high schools around me even offer those anymore.

>>2791783
A YouTube video as sauce? Lol. Lmao even. An article from 2018? Come on OP, we all know you're a faggot, but it's like you aren't even trying. Honestly, if the number of posters was still listed you'd see that there are two boomers and two guys sitting in their mom's basement eating tendies arguing about this shit. No one cares, because things have changed since 2018.

1/10 made me respond

It's truly a wonder why people don't want to slave like a nigger to some boomer for 5 years at $15 an hour to "apprentice" when they could make $18 at Mcdonalds.

>>2791783
Trade jobs are for retards who can't figure out how to become a licensed contractor the reason they don't pay much these days also immigrants who come and work non union jobs making it hard to compete plain and simple, to become a union journeyman and travel to job sites that pay top dollar u need a number of hours to complete as an apprentice from 3000 to 8000 plus school to qualify for the license exam, if u apply to a union u either have to be lucky af if there is demand but usually u have to have family tied to that union to get into their program, if u're young, have no experience, want to have a creer but can't go to college for whatever reason check ur local union halls and learn about these trades, in boomer days doing this and just working in the union as many hours available got u a comfy life and very good retirement, today u need to learn the trade and get out as soon as possible, that's what my formen told me and that's exactly what i did, i also went to college for construction management and gc to be able to to get better contracts for my business
t.ibew master electrician

>>2792039
You've definitely got the "barely literate tradie" thing going.

>>2791790
Im not boomer old but I'm millennial old who has had a business for now 15-20 years, have trained many workers and also been that bottom of the rung worker. Don't take it personally as I may be misinterpreting but.
>Taken advantage of
Usually this means doing the shit nobody else wants to do. This isn't "taking advantage" it's just parts of the job that have to get done and somehow the guy who just joined with no experience thinks it's mean to make them haul material for half the day and watch us work for the other half. This is normal. It sucks, but it's not some cruel act.
>Expect to know everything as a beginner
It's true that once you are in any trade some things are so obvious you forget what someone who is fresh doesn't know, things as simple as hunting for water on a job, how to push a wheelbarrow up a ramp, how much water should be in a sponge when grouting etc. simple tasks we do expect you to know and it's a shame when a boss is a dick about it, but...they are gonna be a dick fine, tell them to get fucked.
>Being condescending
It took me a while to fully grasp that my boss wasn't just there to do a job and run the process, there was a lot of risk, reputation, finding work so you can feed your workers and yourself etc. Once I was on my own, it dawned on me that every boss I told to fuck off because they were mean we're just stressed plus some lack of social skills and education, all they knew was construction from a time where they were allowed to just rant sexist, racist horrible shit at each other all day.
>Things changing
If you don't want to deal with the above, join a union and play by the rules, youll have managers and supervisors to complain to and that'll be that. The dinosaurs are being replaced. Personally the best quality work I've seen are from the mean, ogre of men who are difficult to work for/with. But you learn the most and you are given opportunities that can accelerate your skills faster than a union setup.

>>2791955
This. It's the opposite, there has never been a better chance to replace a hoard of dying masters. I'm in my 30s, look literally like a homeless person and have so much work via word of mouth I don't know what to do with myself. All my clients complain they can't find workers. What I do see happening is that big builders are being dicks, the old men knew that when you had a good crew, you kept them rain or shine. Their kids took over, hired lawyers and accountants and now fire everyone to save a dollar here and there. Project ends, mass lay off, replace with the lowest paid worker, repeat. So if you want to do well in any of the "basic" trades like carpentry or painting etc. you have to serve only the super rich, who actually pay for quality. That or you specialize, specialized electrician, HVAC, technician work for elevators or other mechanics etc. Besides those two spheres being a tradie just sucks.my 2 cents anyways

Okay so i have experience living in Australia and southern California and here are my opinions on the trades situation in both of these places

>Australia
Trades definitely not dying, like 1 in 4 guys from my high school went into the trades despite life as an apprentice being absolutely shit for most people.Certain trades definitely have shortages, like bricklaying, hardly anyone young going into that trade and that's probably because of the reputation it has for being rough. Well it's a shame but its a dying trade anyway so I guess it doesn't matter, everything that was once built out of brick can now be formed up by a carpenter and poured with concrete. It'll be ugly but so is everything else modern so whatever. The reason they say there is a trade shortage is because they are importing a million brown cunts a year and they need white people to build houses for them because these brown cunts are useless and can't do anything except consume.

>Southern California
Not really a worker shortage, just a shortage of good workers. Retarded brown people who can do a bit of everything are a dime a dozen but not many truly skilled craftsmen around. Parents from middle class families dissuade their kids from going into the trades because the trades are seen as a thing that mexicans do and not white people. Also the young white people here are fucking retarded and not reliable, none of them really understand that while the pay may be average at first if you put your time in and learn the trade you can easily be charging $50-60 an hour for yourself in like 4-5 years. And most trades are going to be paying like $25 an hour starting so way above minimum wage.

>>2791783
i thought about becoming an electrician. i live in philly. the union pays really well at the journeyman level. last i checked, apprentices, however, were still getting paid like $20/hour. good luck surviving on that.

>>2792228
So you expect to get paid journeymen level when you don't know shit? Retards kids I swear. It's an investment. On 4 years you'll be making like $70 an hour or whatever the fuck journeymen union sparkies make

Sieg heil

>>2791783
America is a service and soon to be an information economy

Production and farming are in the past

Anonymous

>>2792289
when i was considering it 4 years ago it was $16-17/hour and i was making $70k at the time. stuck with what i was doing and now im making $115k so it's working out.

>>2792292
Modern farming requires skilled equipment maintainers and operators, not (except for crops still requiring manual harvest and the baseline general labor for any such business) meatbag general labor in large quantity.

Beware sloppy generalizations.

>>2791783
Oy very! Don't take trade jobs goyim! Go to our communist indoctrination academy where you pay is to learn why chopping your dick or tits off is good. Let these jobs be done by the illegals we bring in instead!

>>2791790
can confirm. It happened to me when I was trying to get into grading. condescending fuck I worked with was a preacher and still talked shit behind my back constantly and blow up on me sometimes. They were alienating as well since I was a good ole boy with a room temp iq like most of them were.

>>2791783
This honest carpenter guy really wants to suck mike rowe right in the penus

>>2791783
Whitey foreman/gc/manager wasn't racist. Sure hire the Mexicans, Russians, whatever

20 years later, they're the bosses now.
>crew is 100% people from their own country, they get in fights with the Russian crew.

>>2792342
There was no one else to hire you fucking dumbass racist.

Quit crying about replacement theory when your pale ass has no fucking children and you will probably never even have a gf

>>2792344
I see I was correct

>replacement theory

>>2791783
Kids dont even like cars anymore. With no car culture, there is no interest in blue collar sensibilities

>>2792292
You can't eat information. We still live in a physical reality. Production and farming are more valuable when less people know how to produce and farm.
Contrary to the old saying, Knowledge is NOT power. Knowledge APPLIED is power.

>>2792354
Robits will be growing all the tomatoes anon

>>2792372
When robots can power, maintain, fix, and perpetuate themselves, let me know.

>>2792372
Great, we can send all the Mexican's back then!

>>2791887
>the insurance is CRIPPLINGLY expensive.
How much do you think $1mil of insurance as a workman do you think it actually costs per year?

Wait so some of you are upset in order to be in the trades you get paid like shit and worked hard doing inexperienced shit while being paid and a few licenses or certifications proving you know how to safely build a fucking house is why young people aren't getting into trades?

So the alternative is taking out massive loans,4 years of unpaid learning, then starting at a job getting paid like shit for the first few years of their careers is the logical choice being made?

>>2792605
Nobody wants to put forth any effort to get started or earn their place. They all want the highest paying job off the bat with as close to as zero effort as possible.

Oh and they will only put in a maximum of 40 hours a week, not one second more.

>>2792606
Yeah, you can find crews to do certain jobs like paint, roofing, framing, whatever. You just do sales and own the place, take all the profit and never touch a hammer.

>>2792606
>>2792610
And this is why most general contractors become contractors. Because they don't want to do the actual work themselves.
Don't confuse licenses with certifications.

>>2791862
like what exactly? driving a monster truck at a mine? not too many and normally go to retarded family of company execs and owners.

"US Navy frigate behind schedule due to staffing shortage at shipyard!" Pay is absolute shit, like when you factor in a few factors, its at or BELOW fast food, with less advancement.

I've done construction in Silicon Valley and even on a Public School job with Union Contractors they will use unskilled Illegals to do electrical work on major remodels, and have the real Sparky show up for two days when it gets inspected.

it's not that hard to understand. our parents who were in trades and knew how hard they were working told an entire generation to get some higher education, so they don't have to work so hard. that's what we did. now that sectore is oversaturated and trades are dying. now you can see a reversal starting to happen - I'm pretty sure our kids will get told to get into a trade.

but at the same time trade work isn't really attractive when you could get an physically easier job.

>>2792082
>This isn't "taking advantage" it's just parts of the job that have to get done
this entire sentence, while there is truth in it, shows a core problem. coworkers are tasked to teach new people. often times they have no interest in that, lack any teaching skills, are annoyed that they're tasked to do it or various other reasons. "let them do the dirty work" is one of the worst ways to teach new people. the dirty work has to be done too, I get it. but start teaching the new hire on day one so they become useful as quick as possible while sharing the dirty work. this way the new hire not only feels appreciated but sees that cleaning up and hauling shit is everybody's responsibility. this way you create a much better environment.

so as a boss you need to look out for people who want and CAN teach new people too. and preferably not just one dude but multiple

>>2792082
So do I just tough it out when dealing with a condescending jackass? I've managed to move up quickly at a new company, receiving training from multiple department heads. This has really pissed off a supervisor that's been there for 14 years, as well as made others jealous I imagine. I just go to work pissed off every day because of him

>>2792696
>but at the same time trade work isn't really attractive when you could get an physically easier job.
This. You can easily make 6-figures even starting out in most trades however those 50-hour work weeks of demolishing your body basically aren't worth the money or owrking conditions.

Ever see a master plumber elbow-deep in sewage to fix a pipe? I wouldn't do that job for less than thousands of dollars per hour.

>>2792747
>Ever see a master plumber elbow-deep in sewage to fix a pipe?

no, and you haven't either, not in a civilized country. actually do some plumbing then talk about it.

>>2792752
No, but I have seen the owner of the company in a brand new $100k truck show up to supervise Enrique the 5'3" mexican digging the hole to get to the sewage pipe for 6 hours under a house.

Go touch pipes yourself.

>>2792754
>supervise Enrique the 5'3" mexican

I repeat: "civilized", which does not include your owner friend, and Enrique is not a "master plumber" if he swims in shit to fix a pipe

>Go touch pipes yourself.

I've repaired fucked up sewer lines in a pond of sewage and I've yet to have to touch the stuff. I have sense, unlike you and your owner friend and Enrique. Sure, some macho shitheads take pride in not being "afraid" of it, but intelligent plumbers NEVER find themselves elbow-deep in sewage, EVER.

I have a policy: I only reply to idiots once, and then I let them have the last word. Do your best, then have a nice day. I'm out of here. bye.

>>2792757
>I have a policy: I only reply to idiots once
You've replied to this idiot at least twice so far. And you're making shit up because plumbers generally have to get dirty and come in contact with shitwater they never want to but thats how water splashes around. If you're a plumber that never touches gross stuff, you're probably working in new construction and not repairing or replacing old stuff.
>I've repaired fucked up sewer lines in a pond of sewage and I've yet to have to touch the stuff.
Yeah? You use your extra long wrenches and do it from the shitpond shore?

>>2792039
i like that this is one big sentence.

>>2792747
>demolishing your body
as opposed to sitting in an office chair for your entire career, and dying at 40 from diabetes and obesity like 99% of white collar workers

>>2792825
Yeah, sitting at a computer and getting regular exercise with other healthy habits always leads to diabetes, obesity, and death at 40. Compared to 99% tradies that get addicted to opiates, develop alcoholism, and are crippled by 40 unable to walk to the mail box.

>see, I can make up dumb shit too

>>2792738
Rant
Not to get to esoteric, but I decide how I feel and that nobody can move me from that state. When I deal with jackasses I usually remain very calm and let them sort of trip over themselves. If someone is particularly aggressive I always try to get to the solution of whatever needs solving and if they are incapable I just go above their head.

As a company owner there are a handful of people I actually have just refused to work with. Eg. They want to be the contractor on a project, I have to work with them, if they fuck me or try to fuck me I simply say "the project is done, my services are no longer available to you, feel free to pass my number to the owner etc. and I'll work with them directly". I don't like getting fucked. Generally I just hold my ground and if things get a little too out of hand I start packing, I've walked off 2-3 jobs in the last 20 years. I'm too good at my job to be abused and I have a good reputation so it hasnt hurt my business.

Ultimately I was this way as a worker and as an owner. I'm not aggressive but if people are a little to mean or aggressive I plainly tell them something like - they should calm down, I won't continue working if they don't collect themselves, can we be civil, let's be professional or at worst, "we are not a good fit, I will not be continuing here, sorry" and leave. Usually the result is whoever is more important than them calling me to discuss what happened and not to worry they won't act a certain way.

What you should never do is dabble where you are not strong. I'm not someone who yells and screams, I'm someone who is calm and cool, so if someone really pisses me off id rather pull them into my skill set than fall into the rage hole they are very comfortable with. Make them feel small, manipulate the situation to your benefit. A boss who is extremely mean or threatening responds quickly to "this behavior is not acceptable, if you continue I'll be reporting this to the head super".

>>2791783
And yet the unions will still vote for Pedophile, or one of his idiot Dem replacements, just like they did for Obamby and watch the jobs fly overseas:)

Because I make $25/hour being a cable man but not in a trade.
I can go pick up a CCNA and make even more at the drop of a hat.
I'd love to do electrical stuff, but I'm not about to spend 5 years making less than a Walmart employee while having to buy my own tools while the older folks steal them.
I'm not going to work out in the fucking 100 degree weather and shit in a portapotty for less than $30/hour, sweetie.

machinist bros, the QRD?<br>manual machinist or cnc machinist? Supposedly you can get paid pretty good or something but I don't got good enough grades to get into university and I'm a year behind in math.

>>2792606
Let me know when it gets any easier to live in a large amount of this country while putting in the time learning and making shit money. Let me know when people can AFFORD to put in the time to earn their place. okay boomer

>>2792082
>>Taken advantage of
>Usually this means doing the shit nobody else wants to do.
my dad was a mechanic and hes constantly wary of mechanics fucking up his shit and stealing parts right off his rig, I dont know what the hell your business is but it was obvious what that faggot is talking about. are you actually trying to make it sound like this kind of thing doesn't happen or are you just in some kind of goldylocks industry?

>>2792082
>it's just parts of the job that have to get done and somehow the guy who just joined with no experience thinks it's mean to make them haul material for half the day and watch us work for the other half. This is normal. It sucks, but it's not some cruel act.
this is a shitty way to teach someone anything.
>It's true that once you are in any trade some things are so obvious you forget what someone who is fresh doesn't know, things as simple as hunting for water on a job,
I have never met any boomer who does not lose their shit if you ask questions about anything, get mad at you for checking their work, nor provide adiquate instructions when ignored. These people demand for you to simply smile and nod. I'm glad I did not become a tradie nor do I really want to, because its filled with people like this. But I genuinely feel bad for the young people who took genuine interest in what their parents do, only to realize meeting their expectations was rendered impossible by their own egotistical behavior. Instead if they are fortunate, they have to look through randos and hope they get someone with a better temperment than their own flesh and blood.
>all they knew was construction from a time where they were allowed to just rant sexist, racist horrible shit at each other all day.
I don't know what it is about people these days but most of the sexist racist horrible shit saying people I know tend to be the kindest while people complaining about that shit like you tend to be the worst. You seem to be conflating that shit with boomers, who collectively behave poorly as a rule regardless of belief system. As a tranny, nothing would make me feel more comfortable than someone poping a troon joke or saying careful not to ack yourself on the skill saw. having to watch your word every 2 seconds sucks dick most of the time. The issue is not with chimping out, it's why and when. I don't want to be chimped out at when I am trying to learn or worse doing a favor.

not reading any posts
muratic acid
MOST states DO NOT have a union and are saturated in cheap immigrant labor
the pay is atrocious unless you have a union, and if you do the pay is totally worth the ~4 year program, so anyone complaining about unions is retarded
i worked in a union state planning to leave so never certified as an apprentice but my boss was paying me way more with 1 year experience (i'm competent, learned fast, and could be trusted) then i'm now making in a right-to-work state without unions as a freakin manager
i have 3 years experience now managing people with 20-30 years and they're all fuckin retarded and unreliable
new construction is tiny fuckin margins because of the cheap labor force
all the money, fun, pleasure is in small time remodel work
all new construction outside union states is TERRIBLE because of cheap labor and boomer builders

>>2793021
also piece rate employment is retarded
boomers literally just established shit systems that are china tier and it's going to be really obvious the upcoming decades as all our infrastructure falls apart and doesn't get replaced

>>2793021
>muratic acid
don't you mean muriatic? Also, that wouldn't solve anything. Why do middle easterners resolve to acids they can't even spell?

>>2793026
it's a meme who cares
nothing is going to solve anything except collapse and/or seperating yourself from the bullshit and just doing upper-class private work

>>2792899
>What you should never do is dabble where you are not strong
That's actually really helpful, thanks. I'm not gonna let him run me off so easy

>>2793021
ha ha union workers are just glorified laborers

there is not a single union worker in any trade who could do something that compares to the tradesmen working on high end custom homes

the audacity of union carpenters even calling themselves carpenters when the closest thing they do to carpentry is hammer duplex nails

>>2793058
a glorified. english speaking, legal white man laborer is still way better than illegal subcontractors
the gatekeep of unions makes a huge difference and raises wages to attract intelligent white people
i understand 90% of people in every field are shit but you obviously don't understand how bad it is in states where it's completely OK to subcontract mexican shit with no certs what soever

>>2793009
It's fun work. With cnc you could potentially move into programming and make bank. With manual it's a lot more hands on and you feel like you made something, it's also going to be more one off work I think so you'll be doing different things more often.
The safer route is CNC, you'll always find CNC work

>>2792606
>Noooooo why ain't dem workers with proper training and certifications willing to work for crumbs like dem browns from da border?

>Noooooo why dem tradies so concerned about making a living wage in a bad economy?

>Noooooo why ain't dem tradies finding enough work hours to get by?

You senile idiot.

>hard dangerous work
>shit pay
>shit bosses
>fuck tones of gate keeping (licensing, permits and unions)
I wonder why no one wants to work in the trades

What do I do if my boss catches me watching anime on break? He looks at me like I'm a faggot every time I speak to him now and ignores me when he can

This whole thread is people talking past one another.

The trades sucks and getting to a career from a trades job is very difficult. The trades are dying because everyone knows that you get maybe 20 years of tradesjob and then you are pretty much kicked to the curb unless you can move up into management or get a license. Maybe if you are lucky you will find someone who will pity you for a minute and give you a job when you are 40 for a dollar under scale.

>>2793526
I work with a few old farts that managed to hang in there, but the toll it takes on your body is brutal. The ones that are forced to go on are the ones that didn't save throughout their careers and are forced to keep going to make ends meet. Sitting behind a machine in a shop seems to be the easiest (relatively) on your body, though you have to deal with a lot of workplace bullshit. As a college graduate that switched to the trades, I think it is still the better choice as long as you make smart decisions during your career.

>>2791783
Trades is too broad a term. A welder for a nuke plant can lead a long, comfy well-paid career and gain certs to do inspections. A wire welder assembling trailers not so much.

An auto mechanic working retail who never advances won't do near as well as my former boss who started a used car lot and built his stock repairing auction buys. He died old and rich.

My machine shopownerbro is happy and rich. His wife does CAD and runs the books. His best workers do a few years and move upward with bigger firms. The bottom feeders are content but don't advance.

>>2791783
idk how it is where you are, but in SW US it's boomers and genx contractors hiring mexicans, and a lot of contractors stiff them on pay, and this has been happening for a while

a competent crew can make SO much fucking money out here it's just waiting in a sea of unskilled labor that's flooding jobsites

>>2793631
Most of the tradesmen who make it to old fart status do so through getting into a maintenance role at some point, or just retire into disability once they have a house and car paid off. It is a very inhuman system and the number of guys I have met who have the "ideal" trades retirement (Union Pension and large savings), all have some choice words about how the union was great until they get to the tail end of their career and they get to see more how the sausage is made. There is a lack of virtue in the unions and especially in the management of the unions.

>Sitting behind a machine in a shop seems to be the easiest (relatively) on your body, though you have to deal with a lot of workplace bullshit

I think those guys are universally old fucks. There may be a generational reason for that though as they don't pump out tool & die journeymen like they used to.

I'd note that every tradesmen I have ever met sent their kids to college even if they were taking over the family trade, and nearly universally told their kids to go into government work. Disgusting.

>>2791871
also
>Pays below industry averages
>It's just not worth hiring and training anyone, they don't stick around !

>>2793206
what trade in 2024 is dangerous?
Hard is more a function of technique, the right tools, and keeping yourself in shape

People that "ruin their bodies" work too many hours

>>2793709
Arborist, truck driver, utility lineman

>>2793185
thanks anon.
I don’t see how a bunch of gcode translates to programming experience though but that’s a relief

>>2793784
You "program" using a CAM software such as MasterCAM to create the movements that make the part. The experience you get CNC machining helps you know what kind of shit you can get away with programming

>>2793799
^This and shitty designs abound from those who do not.

>>2792449
> power, maintain, fix, and perpetuate themselves
Self replicating nanotechnology making humans into synthetics from the deathshot is an immediate example that comes to mind. So, it's not happening outwardly as most are anticpating,

>>2792145
I'll be going into a trade school, but I work my shitty warehouse wagie job in the meantime to build the funds.
Warehouse work is always retarded, but it's fun to use the machinery and it's good experience understanding maintenance.

>>2793702
A bunch of "i gots mine" types. Easy to fall into that trap when you work a trade where you service people who can't do a lot of basic things that people before us, from all of all walks of life, casually knew how to do.

>>2794031
The more we know about nano technology and how our own cells work, the more it looks like nanotechnology is hardly gonna do shit.

>go to work
>yet yelled at by some 500lb high school drop out for shit you can't control
>he doesn't know how anything works the higher ups don't give a fuck so you just take it
>your wife just got a nursing certificate and already makes more money than you
>your coworkers will throw you under the fucking bus for any little thing
>office workers don't even want to talk to you because they think you are beneath them
it's difficult to keep that passion for work when it's just humiliating in a lot of ways. It would be worth it if the supervisors in trades weren't always the biggest retards you'll ever meet

Sieg heil

>>2793799
I wouldn’t focus on programming, they already have AI generated 3D printing slicers and a lot of CAM programs have a premium AI enchanted feature set

Ya a matter of time before you can input your work holding , stock size and machine capabilities and tools on hand and “slice” your machine program for simple parts. Using a large language model.

A lot of AI programs can already write Gcode from scratch with language inputs

“Write a safety block, face a 6061 2.5” x2.5” x2.5” block by 20’thou with a 1” endmill”

“Canned cycle drill path, peck by 100 thou return to safety plane”

And it will do it

Anonymous

Low ceiling trades:
>Carpentry/scaffolding, plumbing, insulators, roofing, small engine mechanics
These jobs can pay livable wages but you will find yourself stuck in city construction, tooling around in a beat up service truck (or your own vehicle), and working with drug addicts/divorcees. I will say that industrial carpenters, concrete workers, and insulators make more money working out of town and do get adequately compensated for busting their asses.
>High ceiling trades: welding (pipeline/stainless steel), heavy duty mechanic, millwrights, electrician/instrumentation, ironworkers
These trades can set you up on a path to impressive 6-figure salaries if you were to attend training for project management, consulting, or power engineering/maintenance contracts.

Tradesmen who take care of themselves, aren't fucktards, have financial smarts, and know not to bring harm to their bodies have many opportunities to land gravy gigs that pay as much or more than post-secondary graduates. Their will always be a need for someone digging with a shovel or hauling material, but you can do some research and take courses to be a guy who TELLS someone how deep a trench needs to be or what kind of equipment needs to be installed

>>2794181
Plumbers can make insane money if they own their own business, even those doing work for a general can make decent cash. But carpentry, insulation, roofing, framing, basically anything the mexican crews can do they'll do it for much cheaper than you and isn't worth messing with.

Welding has become a meme; because so many people heard welders make $200k a month the trade has become ultra saturated and some welders are basically making $16/hr doing the exact same weld for 9 hours a day. Once you get really fucking good, you're still in the brutal struggle of either working for a major company that needs shit to pass x-ray tests, or you're working for a custom fab shop, but don't hold out for either of those because you'll need to wait for those welders to die before you'll be hired. Electricians can be hit or miss, but a decent one is just like a plumber; have your own business and get with the right foreman they'll keep you busy forever. Iron workers are a bunch of crybabies.

>>2794210
You make some good points, it really is what you make of your career and your home life situation. I'm not knocking a plumber who has to stay in town to work so he can be close to his family, just like any other mechanical trade.

I've been a sparky for 11 years and I've done just about everything except maintenance. I plan on taking power engineering courses to become an operator for some oil and gas company, sit in a mod building in the middle of nowhere watching Formula 1 races and going out checking readings every now and then.

The money in industrial/oil & gas is absurd but I don't want to subject my body to years of inhaling coke dust, NORMs, or have some brown man scaffolder drop a pair of wire nippers on my head.

>>2794211
>it really is what you make of your career and your home life situation.
This es exactly why you should never go into a specific trade like "welding" because someone who isn't a welder heard apprentices make $50k with no experience and good welders make $250k. Thats that same dumbass meme of "get into computer information technologies with this certificate and make $100k a year because everyone in IT makes 6-figures!" then they end up being a help desk monkey for $15/hr for 5 years before they realize they've been duped and the job is ultra saturated.

Its almost impossible to see the forest for the trees, but yeah you can make a lot of money doing almost any trade and you're not a complete moron with your own finances and investments. And I don't mean investments in a stock market. An investment into a tool to get the job done better or faster. A lot of younger guys in trades think they should get the best tools and a lifted truck and call that an investment.

>>2791785
>Maybe if they paid more and didn’t expect 22 year olds to have 8 years experience.

=EIGHT= years? I've seen some where they wanted ten, for an entry wage of $12.00/hr.

>>2791854
This. The industry I'm in, most companies used to supply specialized tooling and gauges, now they are expecting the entry level mechanics to provide these. And that entry level wage has been plummeting, while these companies boast record profits.

>>2794181
my Fiancé is a Carpenter Apprentice in the Seattle area, work in the region completely dried up due to budget cuts after the massive COVID shutdowns here.

thousands of union members are out of work through all of the trades and the halls have no answer for it, yet they expect you to keep paying your dues. she hasnt even received a dispatch call in 6 months. their only advice is to go solicit yourself at job sites but there is no active list of current job sites, just the jobs that hired people the week before (and therefore arnt hiring anyway).

>>2794463
Maybe its because they don't like him. Its also seattle so fuck that place.

>>2791783
i was a welder in southern oregon for a year. i did mig and mostly worked on aluminium. i was apprenticing under one of our cities 3 tig welders.
i made more than 70% of the people in that building.

i still made $1.80 less than the local walmart payed stoners to sweep up isles. and about $3.90 less than walmart paid stoners to work the self checkout register.

i understand that not everyone is going to start well off. that one must work his way to a higher pay. but we consider walmart wages poverty tier. anything below that is not worth skipping meals or heat for the winter. i have so much hate for the factory owners, who get together to play poker every weekend, and -cohen-cidently all pay the same wages.

>>2794487
>i was apprenticing under one of our cities 3 tig welders.
Why don't you fucking morons refuse to work until you get a raise if theres only 4 of you in the entire city? You 4 could play poker and coincidentally charge $500 per hour. How about this; You force your city council to agree to some bullshit made up southern oregon union or welders permit and boom, you've cornered the market. I assume you dont' work for 'the city' but you meant theres 4 total tig welders including you in the city.

You haven't thought about this while losing brain cells on fumes?

Sieg heil

>>2794487
I got a job in an office after college once,

You know we were all paid pretty well, had university degrees basically emailed each other all day

The safety meetings were about carpel tunnel from typing too much, back problems from sitting all day and making sure the women don’t get too cold in the air conditioning

Now I’m dodging drops off the lathe from ww2 that throws them at the side of the cnc mill

And try to breathe in an unairconditikned non-ventilated warehouse with oil mist coolant making the air thick

Anonymous

>>2793009
I went to school for machining (both manual and cnc, programming included) and currently work as a cnc operator waiting for a position in the tool room to become available. The pay will never be good, but it can certainly be enough. Moving into programming or engineering will absolutely net you more than machining, but personally I have the machine autism and like watching it go brrr, so I'd rather stay a machinist.

>>2794515
the one i apprenticed under is a drug addict, probably still is. i learned more from youtube than him. i do not expect them to be able to do much of anything after work hours. so i bailed and got a very specific job where i am currently very near the top of my very specific field.

>>2794572
thats a rough downgrade bro.

>>2792292
god you are a retarded faggot, i hope you kill yourself. pied pippers like yourself keep leading us off the cliff, now we are falling and trying to grab onto something and you're all
>lol now we are a pitfall economy, soon to transition to a bottom of the pit economy, just embrace it goy

meanwhile, the same dual citizenship JEWS who write these articles and push this meme are literally taking your money and setting up factories and aggricultural in their home country of israel. China is too. Every single country the jew outsources our 'everything' too, those countries double down and use the profits to reinforce their own production because ownership is king.

we arent transitioning to an information economy, we are transitioning to institutionalized serfdom.

>>2794210
>Plumbers can make insane money if they own their own business

yeah. by cheating people
>oey vey goyim i need 100$ an hour, deadline unknown. Oh man i tiled your bathroom but they cracked so now you need to pay me 6 hours of labor to undo my own work, then do it over again. Hopefully they dont crack this time amirite ;)

>>2794817
I can tell you're stupid because you're paying a PLUMBER to lay tile in your bathroom. Try using a flooring or tile contractor next time.

And yeah, plumbers in some areas can charge whatever the fuck they want because the alternative is paying a plumber an hour away who will charge $300 fuel surcharge then tell you to go fuck yourself because you're not worth the drive to work on your plumbing.

Sieg heil

>>2794639
The cnc production job oddly feels more productive…

Like how are those little Palestinian kids going to get drone strikes if I’m not out there on the shop floor cutting metal ?!

We can’t let those little anti-semites live

Anonymous

>>2793009
Seconding this. I’ve never programmed before and am shit at math, would I still be able to do cnc? Can it be a comfy gig?

>>2794983
You do not need to know anything to be a CNC operator.

>>2791783
>Why is this so ????
Personally i left it because i had to deal with a lot of shitheads.

I trade my machines time for money. manual is for repair therefore dealing with people who want to fuck around about price. I can do anything on a cnc that i can do on manual but that is from experience having to do fucked up shit for previous employers. a basis in manual machines helps in cnc. again i trade my machines time for money if dont understand just pick up the shovel retard.

Boomers have gatekept the trades so hard they aren't even worth pursuing for most. Wanted to drill a water well in Texas in my backyard. You need 2 years of experience under a licensed driller which includes 15 bore holes and 15 pump installs as well as a passing score on the test. 2 years to drill a fucking hole in my backyard. Meanwhile you can be a Jew and take the series 7 and sell financial products to teenagers in much shorter time with zero experience.

Is two years of experience going to keep me from fucking up the water table? Fuck no. If anything pissing away two years is going to make me cut corners. Boomers don't give you any way to compromise. Can't have an inspector come out and license you on the hole you drilled, but you can have someone at the DMV ride alongside you to get your license? Boomers really ruined everything.

>>2792145
Forgot how racist and uninformed Aussies are. Fair dinkum, Bob is your rapey uncle. Why does your armed forces wear those gay ass shorts?

>>2795224
>therefore dealing with people who want to fuck around about price.

Cull clients to large industry only (they're still dicks and treat you as a bank like any shop). My bro got very rich doing repair machining since apparently even German quality has become roach guest worker quality. He's basically rebuilt brand new machines for a tire company because the OEM in Germany gives zero fucks.

He also does stuff like welding cast iron (Crown Alloys MIG wire is glorious) for a local sausage company but now insists they clean everything before he'll touch is because gearboxes full of maggots. (He doesn't eat their sausage after that.)

>>2791783
Its the first person I have seen who tried to adress this issue, ON THE WHOLE PLANET. The first fucking ever. Even on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DR<wbr>m86qmXbs&t

it is mostly unguided "free for all"

>>2795800
oh shit I meant this link

https://t.me/WorkingMenMemes

Why the fuck are there literally only a handful of skilled dudes who want to right the wrongs on this planet. Every day its another big shouting match between some religious, philosophical or political issue that never resolves anything.

>>2791783

they're not actually dying out, countries are just figuring out they can hire foreigners to do most construction jobs.

think about a village of polish workers. are you cheaper than the cheapest of those workers? are you more talanted than the most talented of them? if the answer is no then you're not gonna be able to compete on price or quality, doesn't matter what degrees you get.

i'm saying this as someone who has a useless trade school degree, i quit and got a job in garbage disposal and i get significantly more paid

>>2791783
And then people will accept a 40k/yr desk job after college and wonder why they're poor LMAO

>>2791790
This dude is so fkn mad

>>2795811
Its a culture of narcissism. It is dying out, what few browns they get, their kids get the narcism too and want to be big important e-celebs. Its a wide and far reaching trend.

>>2791783
is this good bending form in the youtube thumbnail? that guy seems like he will fuck his shit if he doesn't bend more at the pelvis

>>2791783
HVAC installer for 4 years. Customer i did an install for used to work for the same company. Said he left for the union after they had a light winter (nothing changed in 25yr) and at the end of day after seeing my install gives me an application for Building Control Engineeers.

Should I go into this? Residential HVAC installs is killing me mentally, moronic helpers annoying homeowners penny-pinching bosses.

Only thing holding me back is the "union life". I don't go out with coworkers, I do not drink at bars, at most I attend a yearly christmas party. Will I fit in at the union? Pls help an autistic tradesman out. In my early 30s btw.

ahh fuck dieing so hard, just drinking coffee, watching youtube, shitposting. waiting for the cnc machine to warm up. about to make bank all day. sell machine time not my time. trades are dieing, Find a product that doesn't involve machining.

I've realized it doesn't matter how hard you work, you're still just a blue collar wagie that makes things for engineers in the same fashion a doordasher gets food for a lazy cunt. Office people will always think less of you too. I wish some kind of standard had been held for the kind of people in trades, because right now my boss is a 600lb retard that shifts the blame from any of his mistakes onto people that can't possibly defend themselves. It's just a horrible existence where you're busting your ass for some jack ass that thinks nothing of you.

>>2792298
>Modern farming requires skilled equipment maintainers and operators

Lol stfu dawg, I was driving those ginormous tractors at 11 years old in the field.

>>2792082
>join a union and play by the rules

Yea no fuck you

>>2792344
>There was no one else to hire you fucking dumbass racist.

lol, You just proved him right

>>2793523
Perhaps that is because you're (what i pressume) an adult male... WATCHING CARTOONS. Seriously?

>>2794211
>plan on taking power engineering courses to become an operator for some oil and gas company, sit in a mod building in the middle of nowhere watching Formula 1 races and going out checking readings every now and then.

Yes, but how do you plan on not killing yourself though knowing you're wasting your one life away?

>>2796875
Okay so they figured out how to grow cow muscle tissue in a test tube. Great it's gonna be super efficient right?

Well no. You need to spend a thousand dollars getting a nutrient available a urry to them. And another 1000 for oxygenated blood. And another 1000 for keeping it warm. And there is no solution for keeping it healthy except completely perfect 100% for the time sterility conditions. Very difficult ult to achieve. It also tastes like shit because there's no variety or structure. It costs $1000/pound and is awful.

There is no economy of scale that's going to make this better. This is after we've already hammered out 30 n years of breakthrough technology and its still shit.

Or you could just get a cow. It feeds itself, keeps itself alive, and tastes wonderful.

For true nanotechnology were finding out there's no way to power these devices or make them move intelligently

Its not like you're gonna fit a raspberry pi and battety and wifi module in a bacteria

>>2792230
Read the wealth of nations. Guilds date pretty bad. Like you can't even read the English for the earliest union laws. This is covered in chapter 10 part 11. Basically for the better part of civilization, people that consume large volumes of products to produce their marketable goods, benefit by forming unions and denying entry.

Codified
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sta<wbr>tute_of_Artificers_1562
Sauce
https://www.marxists.org/reference/<wbr>archive/smith-adam/works/wealth-of-<wbr>nations/book01/ch10b.htm#:~:text=By<wbr>%20the%205th%20of%20Elizabeth,been%<wbr>20the%20bye%20law%20of

>>2792031
With the difference over that time you could cover most of a year's lease on retail space in Chicago. With interest you'd be able to afford it. Common retail options are vape shops, adult toys, convenience stores, and pawn. Uncommon is jewelry, nutrition, bikes... Really 5 years is a long time to just smoke weed and complain about government. Just don't be a consooomer

everything is dying. even doctors and pilots are getting screwed big time. living standard is just decreasing across the board, and sometime between 2030-2040 there will just varying levels of serfdom no matter what you do.

its not unique to the trades.

>>2791783
I’m switching careers from animation to trades, specifically metal fabrication. My goal is industrial mechanic but fabricator school is free so I’ll try to pick up welding skills using the school’s shop. I’m 28 but I’ve worked on Netflix and Disney productions, so that isn’t just padding my resume. I’ve had to work with thousand-dollar late fees looming over my head so I can take a job seriously, I’m a dependable worker. Plus I have experience with home and appliance repair.

I’m not looking for anything glamorous, just something that can get me back on my feet and working with my hands again.

What do you guys think my prospects look like?

>>2797020
My whole life > doctors. Make such good money bro you gotta be a surgeon to make babknif you're smart
Surgeon> *working 80 hours a week, get 200-300k*

If inwas working 80 hours a week I'd be making 250k too but fuck that

Sieg heil

>>2797331
Pretty dim unless you go pipe or underwater.

Friction stir and laser robots really killed your production prospects

I used to be a d1.1 structural welder but America doesn’t really construct shit out of steel much anymore.

So I picked up 6G tig in aluminum for custom fabrication for hot rod shops back in college, but those jobs are few and far between

I switched careers to being a cnc machinist but I’m going to be real with you man this trade is dying, 3d printing is coming up and killing job shops left and right

By the way we probably worked together,idk a lot of stuff for Disney and Netflix production side as a day job.

Anonymous

>>2793185
>you'll always find CNC work
this is true. My work needs woodworking CNC done and every shop is flooded with work and has to hire new people and so on

>>2794463
move to Canada we are building 300,000 houses/year for the 2 million Punjabis/year that our Prime Minister makes immigrate
no carpenter is ever out of work here

Sieg heil

>>2795224
Tbh most manual machinists learn bad habits and refuse to break them, one old geezer at my job would ONLY program conventional tool paths at very slow speeds like he was hand cranking that shit or using a power feed.

Wouldn’t do aggressive rough cuts or g52 multiple parts per bar

Most cnc guys can also machine manually most manual guys cant program with gcode

It’s like most college students that use Microsoft word can hand write but your grandparents that never learned computers can’t use word but can only hand write

“But they have more experience and have been doing it longer” it still takes your grandparents several hours to write, seal and ship an envelope… a young guy that sends emails all day can also write seal and ship a letter faster than an old man with bad habits and a slow process

He’s just been doing it slow for 40 years

>>2797350
A machinist is lost in cnc wood routing o and cabinet making

Most of the tools a machinist buys and is heavily invested in are from mitutoyo…

Too tight tolerances to use on a piece of oak custom cabinet

And we run oily and coolant soaked Milwaukee to deburr not pristine festool to install custom built ins

It would be like asking a mechanic to install your hvac, sure it will probably get done but will it be up to code and as efficient as if a guy who went to an hvac certification program could do it?

Anonymous

>>2797341
Sorry to hear that. I’m in eastern Ontario. Did you work on Hilda, Kid Cosmic or Centaurworld? I worked on those in Ottawa. But yeah thanks for the honesty.

>>2796863
That's right! I can fix cars, I've driven one before without crashing afterall

>>2794356
>=EIGHT= years? I've seen some where they wanted ten, for an entry wage of $12.00/hr.
no you haven't

>>2791783
I'm 22, im a felon, I recently went and got my epa 608 certs for HVAC but never went and looked for someone to hire me because I can't stand being told to fuck off for the felony. I want to do a trade, im in between 2 cities in north western NC.

Sieg heil

>>2797372
Read my last two major productions were avatar to end one of the Kingsman movies I forget which one 3 or fourth I’m not really a huge fan and we got some like marvel movies coming out

We did the Netflix Barack Obama thing

Anonymous

>>2797489
Brother, until you have some time (like 5-7 years) after your conviction nobody is going to be able to insure you to drive a van anyway. You will be hauling your ass where you need to go and doing install.

>>2795245
The parents of the boomers ruined the trades, then boomers did nothing but make it even worse.

>>2794463
lol washington is going to be hit very hard in the next building recession. IBEW killed any hope of new factories being built and the other craziness in the state is making California of all places more competitive for industry.

>>2791783
Ain't working those hours, at that pay, with those people.

Is it still worth it to be a union electrician bros? college dropout here

>spent 2 weeks and probably 120 hours designing and machining a part for a customer
>barely finish at the deadline but finished part looks good, it's an assembly of 4 parts I made
>boss stops me as I'm finishing the paperwork to send the sample to the customer
>tells me he's just gonna outsource production to China because it's 1/3 the price vs making the whole order here
>tells me it's just gonna get redesigned in china as well to fit their machinery
>tells me I did a good job and I can keep the sample I made as a souvenir
This was my first big project and it's just for nothing because China can do the same thing cheaper. I don't know how we can compete

>>2798011
>spend 120 hours toiling on some widget
>sure hope I get my normal rate of $200 per hour for this prototype
>chinaman comes in and agrees to do the same work for $20/hour

Show us your souvenir. Also, its because you're looking to profit this month. Chinse are fine profiting next year.

>inb4 its some top secret part that'd instantly identify who you are and who the company is you made it for.

>>2798022
>Chinse are fine profiting next year.

More like Chinese are fine just not profiting. The government subsidizes production at a loss just to keep people employed.

>>2798027
Shut up boomer. Yes, the Chinese government does subsidize some things, it doesn't subsidize every fucking thing ever made there. Show us the part.
>I don't know how we can compete
You compete through government favoritism by adding gigantic tariffs to anything imported from china, OR you actually make your part good enough that China can't compete on quality and consistency. They can push a button on a CNC machine just the same as you can in the US. What makes your US-made product better?

And BTW, tariffs aren't the solution for much because it generally just makes normal shit more expensive (while the government gets more tax dollars) and nobody makes a similar or cheaper alternative locally. This is plainly evident when Trump added a 25% tariff on all chinese junk. Washing machines, refrigerators, and other consumer garbage went up 30-40% nearly overnight. Because of NAFTA some shit is made in mexico (again where labor is cheaper) but the chinese and koreans still make it cheaper and better than Jose in Guadalara.

>>2798030
No that is what they literally do. It is a way to keep their workforce employed. Even a 1% jump in the unemployment rate is tens of millions of people out of work.

https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/chin<wbr>a-briefs/do-government-subsidies-pr<wbr>omote-productivity-growth-china

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202<wbr>308/1296432.shtml

https://eastasiaforum.org/2022/06/0<wbr>8/the-real-victims-of-chinas-subsid<wbr>ies/

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-<wbr>economy/article/3247705/chinese-cit<wbr>y-offers-firms-six-figure-subsidies<wbr>-keep-fires-burning-new-year-holida<wbr>y

https://www.ft.com/content/f1976615<wbr>-370c-46bf-8919-17a26e03a11d

Don't even try and view it from a western centered view because you aren't going to get it. They keep people employed to keep their government and society functioning, the product is secondary to the jobs program now. Multiple times over the last 20 years they kept industries humming past their expiration date to keep the workforce from becoming a gigantic anti-social army. Quality may or may not be good depending on the factory, but they definitely are getting subsidies to keep functioning.

>>2798033
SHOW US THE PART YOU WORKED ON, YOU DILDO

>No that is what they literally do.
The US does that too, whats your point?

>You have 30 years experience, more certifications than the entire crew combined, and all of the tools all of us will ever need? Best I can pay you is 4 dollars a job.
>wow nobody wants to work trades!

>>2798022
It's just a tool holder with a collet that steps down in sizes to firmly hold drills. It isn't something I would've bought myself but the customer has a specific use for it

>>2798069
Very strange ask to have a local company make a pin vise when they're made all over the world in factories every day. It really took you 2 weeks and 120 hours to replicate what is already made for kinda cheap every day?

>>2798074
I was confused they wanted a machine shop to make this as well, but they wanted specific sizes it stepped down to that I guess wasn't available elsewhere. And it should've taken 3 days, certain things proved to be a challenge

>>2793709
ladders are the most dangerous part of any job and those aren't going anywhere. so long as you have to get up high to build something, that job is dangerous.

>>2797962
I started the union apprenticeship last august, I've been loving it so far. got put with a contractor doing industrial work and i feel very fortunate to get to work with a lot of the shit i have gotten to put my hands on. The people have been great, a mixed bag all around but not many assholes. My employer pays 12% on top of my hourly wage into my 401k on top of credits i earn towards a pension as well as health/dental/life insurance. Just be prepared to drive wherever they send you, which can be a long fucking drive if your local is big.

>>2798074
There is very good reason depending on specs. The cheap ones are cheap due to economies of scale. They requirea similar amount of setup but the cost of the setup is paid off over hundreds or thousands of units.

Consider a quote to custom machine a pin vise. They'll have CAD time, CAM time, tooling setup time, they have to order a suitable amount of round bar (which may not be available in short lengths and if so they get to buy X number of feet). The shop will have to machine and inspect a sample, adjust their machining center as required etc. If they have an older turning center they have to turn the cylindrical parts then chuck them in an indexer to machine the splines on a milling center etc.

Suddenly that pin vise has a shitload of labor and time involved.

>>2798082
The "challenges" were not obvious to the customer but that innocent looking pin vise has far for work involved than what a lay person would instantly notice, like machining the jaws. It's a very nice looking pin vise. Is the pocket clip custom too? If so that's a bunch more work than final finishing.

>>2793709
>People that "ruin their bodies" work too many hours

Bodies get ruined either way (oldfag here) but that can be accelerated. Humans aren't designed for prolonged standing. We evolved to be pretty much like apes including how they spend most of the day. That's why comfortable shoes or boots are critical as are work mats where practical. (Horse stall mats work well but the work mats with many drain holes are best for machining so coolant, semen etc can sit low and be less slippy.)

>>2798864
>Suddenly that pin vise has a shitload of labor and time involved.
Thanks for elaborating on my point; when there are cheap ones and good ones already in full production, why would you call up some random machine shop to make you one then decide to buy the cheap chinese ones? Tolerances isn't the reason.

>>2798036
>The US does that too, whats your point?

Not to the scale that China does. We don't defend industry or jobs nearly as aggressively as China.

>SHOW US THE PART YOU WORKED ON, YOU DILDO

Good lord are you retarded. I'm not giving you my product or designs on an anon forum. I'll just say it is ITAR controlled so other than a quick glance at what it would cost to have China manufacture it, the Federal Government wasn't going to trust chinese aluminum.

>>2798909
>We don't defend industry or jobs nearly as aggressively as China.
We do, you're just not aware of it. How about the aforementioned chicken taxes, tax loopholes for every company out there to effectively pay zero taxes, how about major shit the US government will flat out restrict export to china, or import from them? You've been on /pol/ for too long if you think the chinese government flat out controls and gives 99% subsidies to everything there.

>I'll just say it is ITAR controlled
>I'll just make something up so my gay little widget doesn't get laughed at
Unless you're the second anon that claims to have worked 120 hours on something then the bidder went to cheap chinese shit anyway, why would you toss in the US federal government wwouldn't trust chinese aluminum from there, but we'd use chinese aluminum here anyway? You're larping dude.

>>2798912
You're not allowed to have a business in ch9na without having the government on your board and giving half of your manufacturing to the PLA.

But it's okay bro, I got you. You're really saying fuck communism

>>2798864
There were no jaws, every part was done on a swiss machine. The clip was bought on Amazon. Sheet metal fabricators didn't want that job.
The thing the blew me away when making the collet was when the slitting saw came in and cut the piece into fours, the part shrank. The first hole was 0.020" smaller, second hole was 0.010" smaller, third hole was 0.005" smaller, and the OD was 0.010" smaller. Had to change all my drills out multiple times and modify my program to make it finally work right. when all my drilled holes came out undersized I was confused as fuck though
>>2798891
The customer didn't make the decision to go to a Chinese manufacturer. My boss sends some of our work over to China to increase profit.

Entry level trade work pays less than just flipping burgers or delivering pizzas, despite being way harder and more dangerous, and usually with way shittier coworkers who are pissed off about their ex-wife or that they're 50-60 and still doing manual labor. Hmm it's a real mystery

something that really sucks about construction/trades is that everyone thinks money is all that matters. I understand that the boss just wants the job done ASAP so he can make more money, but for the guys actually doing the shit, I'm not about to jog around on the site or do stupid shit literally putting lives on the line just to get the job done faster. People act like it's life or death all the time but man it's really not that big a deal, how about we slow down a little bit, get the job done right, and everyone goes home safely. But I've never seen that and I'm starting to wonder if it even exists.

Crazy to me how guys getting paid hourly will just swallow the boss balls and ask for more, acting like they're tough guys because they have a bottomless stomach for eating shit that really doesn't need to be eaten. yeah sometimes it's necessary to stay late or take risks or really push it to the limit, but usually it's not, it's just the boss or the corporation training these people like fuckin dogs

>wake up at 4 am to be at work by 6 (hour and a half commute both ways)
>shit pay for five years until you can take your journeyman test
>hard on your body
>work with some of the most retarded niggers you have ever met
construction lifestyle sucks ass, even if the work is fun and fulfilling. this was my experience as a commercial electrician

>>2799059
Then they'll do shit in the dum est way instead of pausing and reading the manual and doing it the right way.

I saw dudes install 20 fiber hubs with the door facing the wrong way so you couldn't open. It. All they had to do was read the manual and install the clamp on the correct fucking side.

>>2799061
>hard on your body
kills me how older, experienced dudes who can't hear shit, can't stand up straight, and can barely breathe are always in the biggest hurry to get shit done and don't care about anyone's safety, not even their own. call me a bitch but I think it's possible to get shit done without putting anyone's life or health on the line in 99% of situations, even if it takes a bit longer. We're not building a last ditch fortification against an enemy invasion here. sometimes it's not the older guys though, it's the younger guys who are desperate to impress them (by showing everyone that they care about this job more than their own lives)

just cool it, dude. slow down and do it nice or do it twice. but of course that means less money for the top dog so it aint cool

>>2791783
>pay for training
>low wages and overworked (mexicans work for slave labor so you should too heehee)
>boom bust job cycles (just learn to code bro)
>toll on the body

>average tradie makes like $60k lmfao
>come on the internet and brag about their cousin’s wife’s buddy’s roommate’s brother-in-law who makes $300k a year as a plumber in Alaska
I’m so fucking glad I went to school. Every time I get a raise I thank God I was smart and got a degree, then I go back to sitting at a desk scrolling 4chan and making more than 90% of tradetards.

Why does it seem like getting into the trades in the states is a terrible idea but at the same time is one of the best and most direct ways to make a lot of money in Canada and Aus? Is it immigration? Out of everyone I graduated highschool with the only people that own houses and have more than one kid are all tradesmen. I live in Vancouver for context.

>>2797357
Not a bad idea either actually. The moment your fiance crosses the border they're in Surrey and that is jeetland, developments and work everywhere. And trust me, they will pay, when it comes to building a new home they don't give a shit.

>>2799059
absolutely agree. It comes down to what you're doing
when I lived in oregon I worked for a small (9 plumbers, ~5 apprentices/laborers), privately owned business. guy that ran it bid lots of remodels and repipes and also gas work, profit margins on the jobs were always huge and he never rushed anybody and did everything he could to make sure things were done to the highest quality and safe
hourly rate to customer on average was $190 and plumber makes ~$55
apprentice laborer easily gets 25~ if he's able to make the plumbers life easier and can get up to 40 if he learns everything the licensed plumber knows, proves himself, and can get jobs done without supervision

now i work in florida on new construction with a bigger company(100+) and the profit margins are shit, my company makes 15000 on a million dollar house from start to finish. that covers underground work, rough in, trim, all the supplies(nearly 10k) and rates for employees
minimum of 60 hours labor, average is probably 100 with all the punch work and oversight processes
we charge the same hourly rate of 190$
but none of these guys can get paid 30$/hr, companies refuse and then complain they can't find help, etc
most plumbers are paid piece rate, meaning like 20$ a fixture on a job. which can be great pay if you work fast

so anyway if you want to have a good experience and be proud of your work, stay small and privately owned

Sieg

>>2799271
Average journeyman tradie, 99% of these dudes are apprentice or helpers working towards their journey card which they won’t get for like 10 years

They’ll get 60k once they get their own apprentice

Anonymous

>>2799335
Do they own their own business?
I'm in the US and literally every self-employed contractor I know is making bank.

>>2799079
and if you speak up you're a pussy that's never worked a day in his life

>>2799442
Poor bastards learned at some point "that's just how it is" and just accepted it and dealt with it

Problems around trades don't seem to be unique to trades.

>middle management mis-management
>problems working for large companies vs smaller companies
>problems working for others v yourself and the side-skills necessary to do that
>problems of scale of job projects
>grey/black market competition

>>2799504
Yeah, but in most other areas, nobody gets killed or maimed if you fuck up

Can confirm everything in this thread. Work for a roofing contractor in the SW for about a year. Contractor Is a Gen X hardo that treats everyone like dirt. No one cares about anything except sticking their hand out and saying “pay me”. All the labor is undocumented migrants. Almost all of them try their best and work hard. But at the end of the day there is a difference between working hard, and skilled labor that cares about quality and can actually comprehend English. The gap for skilled labor is huge right now. There are 1000 migrants want to work but no white kids with common sense. The white kids that do get hired get treated like dirt and leave, and the migrants are just trying to get paid but that’s all they’re good for. You have no idea how bad it is. I have had people literally tell me “you have no idea how many companies we called and you guys were the only one who answered the phone and spoke English which is why we hired you”. The bar is so low for people to come into trades and make money right now. You don’t even need a license, clients are that desperate.

>>2799537
>No one cares about anything except sticking their hand out and saying “pay me”.
Because at the end of the day everyone in trades every laborer has been shorted on a job. Some foreman claiming you did a bad job, a general flat out not having money to pay them, or some other bullshit. I had one where 2 subs had the same name and the general paid 1 of them 4 times for the work the other one did, then pointed at the other guy saying get the money from him. Its fucked how in today's world of instantaneous payment between cell phones is possible, but some contractors can't figure out the simple shit like paying people and getting paid.

>you guys were the only one who answered the phone and spoke English which is why we hired you
Thats like 50% of the job. Just answer the phone, show up on time. The other half is just doing good work like you promised. Its literally that simple.
>but they treat me bad!
Thats your leverage. If they want to treat you like shit you can decline work from them and let them deal with Jose and Ignacio trying to figure out the job. Thats when another general picks you up and pays you your worth and does everything he can to keep you.

>>2799437
A couple do but the rest are union guys. The two that do own their own businesses make a ton. Always offering work to people too. Overall, I just think we have it better in Can or Aus if you're in the trades.

>>2799505

it wasnt meant to belittle, just explain that its problems are the same found anywhere and need the same attention.

Do you tuck your shirt into you pants? And tuck your pants into your boots? I've been considering dressing better for work because I hate seeing my coworkers and boss in t shirts and shorts with sneakers at work. It looks like you don't care imo

>>2799807
Why the fuck does it matter what I wear to work tho?
I actually DON'T care, I'm here to get paid.

>>2799807
I tuck my shirt into my pants because I dress like an old man. pants in the boots only happens with rain boots though, I would never bother doing that on regular work boots. After a few minutes on the job they're going to slip out anyway. I doesn't matter because no one is looking at your feet.

>>2799807
I tuck my shirt in because I don't want to show off my ass.

Never heard of tucking pants into boots. That's weird. I've taped them down to my boots when I walked through some tall tick infested grass or poison oak.

>>2798912
>Unless you're the second anon that claims to have worked 120 hours on something then the bidder went to cheap chinese shit anyway, why would you toss in the US federal government wwouldn't trust chinese aluminum from there, but we'd use chinese aluminum here anyway? You're larping dude.

ITAR control issue. Notice how you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Aerospace part. Really boring mundane shit too.


Does anyone else feel intense amounts of rage when watching one of these DIY shows as much as me?<br>I'm a pretty laidback guy, but these shows make me want to assault women and fags.

>>2793340
>Does anyone else feel intense amounts of rage when a retarded OP imbecile thinks everyone watches the same stupid shit he watches?
>I'm a pretty laidback guy, but posts like this make me want to assault fags like OP

>>2793342
>Doesn't have family who watches this shit and comes to you with hairbrained ideas about remodeling their McMansion.
Must be lonely.

>>2793340
I don't watch them, at all. Why would you? They are not technical training, they're distraction for bored housewives of many genders.

>>2793340
What is it about shiplap that reinforces your homosexuality?

>>2793340
>couple with contracting business work with non DIY clients to buying and remodel homes
>create successful cable show to promote business, become professional media stars
> start a lifestyle brand catering to people who will pay for farmhouse chic crap rather than DIY going to a thrift store, become professional home furnishings and lifestyle product moguls
> lifestyle brand is so successful it launches its own cable network
>new cable network replaces The DIY Network, become cable TV network moguls

>muh DIY

>>2793340
>these shows make me want to assault women and fags.
so.... don't watch them? seems simple enough.

>>2793537
He wants picrel and that big hammer to case his opening

>>2793340
I don't watch those shows, but I feel same as you on those two, just from commercials several years ago. She's an obvious psychopath, and he, a cucked faggot.

>>2793340
what's wrong? do you not dry pour your off-grid barndominium shipping coop-tainer permaculture garden, or are you scared to use muriatic acid without gloves? you probably even outsource hiring a mexican to mow your lawn ya fuckin boomboom

>needing a reason to feel murderous rage
Faggot

>>2793344
I've been saying "hair brained ideas" lately too

>>2793340
her face is so weird, it's like looking at a horrific car wreck
bet her butthole stanks tho

>he doesn't watch Bob Vila kino
Pathetic

The OG rage-inducing DIY show: Trading Spaces
Nothing else can compare to the amount of destruction these "designers" did to these people's homes.

I legitimately believe the whole point was for frenemies to passive-aggressively fuck each others' shit up.

>>2794272
bob vila's a dildo, new yankee workshop is where it's at

>>2794321
think bob ross but for carpentry, more along the lines of furniture building than home improvement projects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Q<wbr>78z7luTw

>>2794272
>>2794311

Pfft. "Electricity".
get on my plane, amateurs.

>>2794354
>>2794272
y'all need to figure your shit out
this is where it's at

>>2794399
Sir, we are comparing WOODWORKING shows, not ROCKET DOCTOR shows. Dr Green PHD uses aerospace grade DUCT TAPE.

>>2793340
I don't know who these two are but a lot of the slop my wife watches makes my blood boil, so yes. I don't delude myself by thinking I'm laid back though. with friends I make a lot of jokes and laugh a lot etc, but I'm a very angry person inside.

>>2794354
>get on my plane
I see what you did there.

>>2794281
What's the one with the 2 gay brothers or whatever, trying to find the right house for a young straight couple and their child?

>>2793344
Oh lord this boils my blood. I'd have family members frequently interject with ideas.
>Who's doing 100% of the work and spending 100% of the money? Me, that's who, so I don't want to fucking hear it.
I said it more politely but that's the gist of it.
With my wife now, it's impossible for her to get excited about projects, especially if they cost real money, so at least I don't have to hear nattering about any hairbrained ideas.

>>2793340
I don't know what you think laid back means if watching a tv show can make you want to commit hate crimes

>>2794483
have you watched any modern tv?

>>2794354
>if you like jigs, then you're gonna love this episode

>>2793340
No. My wife and I love these shows. (Watching Rock the Block right now). Some of them spend a ton of money on superfluous or poor ideas that only work with their specific staging, but some of the things they build are kind of cool. I like pausing at certain points to get a look at various carpentry aspects, since I have never framed a room/window/slide between floors myself. It is also fun to see the visible mistakes they make and their clients don’t catch because they don’t know any better, such as making large planter boxes with 3/8 plywood and a Brad nailer, or not putting green board behind their sauna walls. It is a good reminder that even “pros” have their weak points and even if you have something contracted out you should still know how to do the job yourself so that you can check their work.

>>2794455
It's called "The One That Isn't A Hetero White Couple Where He Wears Flannel Shirts, Or A Black Couple Where She's Sassy"

>>2794742
You need to get your wife watching youtube DIY shows. There's plenty of female ones who actually know their shit and it's not some lame performative gay glorified interior designer.

>>2793340
>>2793340
You sounds like a fuckin' nut to me.

The quintessential homeowner knocking a hole in their drywall with a sledgehammer scene. Always makes me cringe. Everyone always asks to come help me demo a house because it looks so fun. I tell them it's fun for about 10 minutes then it's just work. Especially if you're remediating fire or flood damage, having shitty soot rain down all over you for eight hours sure is a blast

>>2794016
>needing a reason to assault women and fags
OP is truly a lost cause.

>>2795058
>knocking a hole in their drywall

At least that's an actual thing; usually it's taking a few limp wristed tentative slaps at a kitchen cabinet door with a sparkling new sledge hammer while wearing equally pristine and unblemished goggles and hardhat and an unbuttoned color coordinated short sleeve polyester "work" shirt over your street clothes.

Don't forget to add in the jaunty, quick paced royalty free "getting to work!" background music.

>>2793340
Just don't watch. It's not healthy to expose yourself intentionally to things that stress you out.

>>2793340

For me it’s that entire channel. The commercials that come up in between the unrealistic segments make my inner Fuhrer come alive with rage.

>black couple
>audi commercial

>>2799069
>black
>audi

I mean in Europe they are meant for Turks and Albanians. So who do you think they are marketing in US?


should I just keep buying red wings? might try some georgia boots or some thorogoods for the first time.

press f to show respect

>>2793525
I want that rude for but now I prefer to buy steel-toed rubber boots. At least I can get them on and off quickly to get stuff out of my shoes and socks, or change my socks cuz they're wet with sweat halfway through the day

>>2795440
What steel toed rubber boots do you prefer?

>>2793525
Stop buying Redwings. Their quality has gone to shit in the last 15 years. Even more so with Georgia.

Get the pry bar out and open your wallet for real, handmade boots from Spokane. I had Franks Boots make me a boot to my specs a few years back and they're the most comfortable, durable boots I've ever owned. Even their budget brand is better than anything you can buy from Redwing.

https://franksboots.com/collections<wbr>/the-patriot

>>2793525
I recommend Doc Martens. I got the 'For Life' program. I bought two pair. All told it cost about 600 bucks. But even though you can't buy the For Life boots anymore, they still honor the agreement for pairs already sold and registered.
When one pair wears out, you box 'em up, pay the shipping, mail them back. In a week, they deliver you a new pair of comfy, professional boots: Rinse and repeat.
I haven't had to buy boots in almost a decade. I have truly never worn better boots. I wear them everyday.

>>2795506
Those heals look a little high for my taste.

>>2793525
>/diy/
>doesn’t rear his own cows, skin, tan, treat, and cut his own leather
>doesn’t use esoteric cobbling techniques to fashion that leather into a high quality boot
the absolute state of this board

>>2795521
The soles on those things wear out faster than a snotty Kleenex. And that was when I was a kid in high school, not working job sites.

>>2793525
this is /diy/ make your own dweeb

>>2795595
The heels are high for a reason...it balances your weight between the ball, heel, and most importantly arch. Most boots have fuckall for arch support and dudes wonder why their feet fucking hurt.

The insides are entirely made of leather so, as you break them in, the leather forms to your feet. I have a couple of pairs, one that I literally call my slippers. They're that comfortable.

>>2795506
These are like goth girl high heel boots and I’m not twink enough to pull them off

>>2795643
nta, op here, but i only wear crepe soles, i hate anything with a heel. steel workers call it a "half inch heart attack" when your heel slips while working at height. just sucks they wear so quickly. agree on leather soles though, they form perfectly with your feet and end up being extremely comfortable after a few weeks.

>>2793525
Bought some Ariat steel toes on clearance for work a few months ago. I know they’re not the best but they seem to be holding up alright so far. Multiple coworkers have Thorogoods that lasted 3+ years but I can’t drop $300 on boots at the moment. Redwings seem hit or miss but mostly miss

>>2793525
I bought second hand red wings 10 years ago and wear them all the time, some light cracking but otherwise the leather looks better than it ever has with occasional mink oil conditioning. Resoled twice, once re welted with genuine sole because I had worn through them too much and waited too long, and recently with a very similar sole as the genuine ones were too hard to source in my country. Incredibly comfortable and the patina would take a long time to replicate if I got a new pair, perhaps the quality has gone down in recent years though. I'd be happy owning these shoes forever and paying for resoles instead of new boots.

>>2795506
Correct answer. If you want real durability go to one of the PNW bootmakers (Franks, Nicks, Whites, etc). They're expensive but they'll last forever.

>>2795506
this but I prefer nicks boots (nicksboots.com) or whites boots (whitesboots.com)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9z<wbr>-xefA_iA

>>2797044
over time these are a better deal than buying $300 throwaway boots every few years. You buy them once and then pay ~100 for a resole when you need to, so you're "replacing" your boots for the price of some crap timberlands or whatever
they're also more durable in general because they make them better, and if you weld you can get them with fireproof stitching
on top of that they're far more comfortable because they're made exactly to your foot dimensions

I swear by these.

I’m a software engineer.

I've got a pair of white's hathorns
damn nice boots
also use obenauf's on your boots and they'll last a long time

>>2793525
>thorogoods
Pass, mine pulled out on the welt after a week. And they are a pain in the ass to warranty.

>>2797044
Just be ware because their most profitable market now is hipsters, not loggers.

>>2799133
I've never had trouble with Thorogoods, I'm on my second pair. Only reason I ditched my first set was they were from working in a chemical lab that I got laid off from, and I didn't want to risk bringing home contaminated boots (I'd usually change into them on-site. Oddly enough that was the first pair that I had that ever survived chemical solvents and corrosives for more than a year.

>>2799135
Yup. Thats why I went with Franks. They make the least "fancy lad" boots out of any of the PNW boot makers.

So as far as I know Whites was the original Spokane boot maker. Nicks was spun off in the 60's from the foreman of Whites. Then, years later, Franks was created by the foreman of Nicks. White's quality has gone down a bit since they're now owned by a huge Japanese shoe conglomerate.

Wesco is good too down in Oregon.

>>2799068
Yeaaaaaaaaa. I work in mining. Those would be destroyed in a month.

>>2799111
Obenaufs LP is the shit.

>>2795440
>rubber boots
>socks are wet with sweat halfway through the day
Puzzling.

>>2793525
Do they still come with a lifetime warranty? I thought redwings would replace or repair them if they got fucked up like that.

>>2799235
I'm a field biologist.
I spend about 75-80 hours a month bushwhacking through deadfall, through swamps, kicking branches out of the way, hiking over boulders.
Going on a year with a pair of Danners and they look as good as new. They're more durable than you would think. Maybe not the best boot if you're in knee-deep mud all day I guess but otherwise surprisingly good.
Super comfortable too.


Why are quill stems and underappreciated diy item? They can be used to build all sorts of things yet nobody ever talks about this

>>2792502
>They can be used to build all sorts of things
Such as?

>>2792505
Anything that requires two metal tubes to be joined at 90 degree angle

can i make one myself? why shouldn't i just weld my metal tubes together at a 90 degree angle?

>>2792502
People who need a versatile construction set use 8020 t-slots or unistrut, not handlebar bicycle components.

>anon starts a scaffolding company using stolen bike parts

>>2793115
Dexion is classic and integrates nicely with unistrut.

>>2792502
Because they rely on friction not postive retention. What have YOU built using them? There's your answer.

Everything worth doing has mostly been done, but the ignorant avoid knowing why extremely common proven solutions are such then see something they don't fully understand and get excited.

Mentioning that everything worth doing has mostly been done so that can be used as a basic option set triggers noobtards who instead should learn basic principles. When it comes to metal construction positive retention of parts is generally desirable.

Quill stems are a very specific exception where friction confers adjustability under light loads and where misalignment during a crash is an advantage because the friction adjustment limits loads thus saving parts. Those are OTOH not good qualities in most non-bicycle construction.

should i throw away my old bicycle
i was thinking at least the hex head bolts could be useful or the flatbar
feel like anytime you have to repurpose salvaged parts from somewhere it has to sit around for a long time that's why salvagers always have a big pile of stuff and the thing has to be designed around the salvaged thing

>>2793372
Yes, put a free sign on it and be done. Wise salvagers exist but we don't crave to save useless scrap.

Yeah, I'm gonna assume you're the same guy
>>>/n/1991611

>I need around 100 quill stems for a diy project
>Fails to elaborate
>Leaves for greener pastures (/diy/)

>>2792502
I was thinking of using them for some shelving very recently. The idea was to build a scaffold of pipes held together with quill stems to hold up shelving boards. My city has some non-profit bike shops that sell used parts really really cheap.

Here's the problem: It's super hard to find two identical used quill stems. The distance from the handlebar clamp to the stem is all over the place and so is the diameter of handlebar they take. That's not an issue if you buy new ones, but there are cheaper ways to hold pipes together than brand new bike parts.

>>2792631
>tracking link
https://www.amazon.com/Azarxis-Adju<wbr>stable-Mountain-Handlebar-Bicycle/d<wbr>p/B08F7FZQ8B/

>>2794120
>but there are cheaper ways to hold pipes together than brand new bike parts.

Such as?

>>2794159
U bolts combined with angle brackets, or using threaded pipes that screw into fittings.

>>2794159
Used scaffolding for one. Used Baker style scaffolds make nice mobile shelving. Scaffolds and their hardware are quite versatile.

>>2794159
>>2794159
NTA but medical furniture like shower/ transfer seats, elevated commode chairs and stuff like walkers and crutches are usually available for cheap at thrift stores and yard sales, and have all kinds of tubing bends and telescoping click lock adjustable parts and brackets and such to be cannibalized, that are mostly in standard sizes and usually made of hard anodized structural aluminum.

>>2793359
every bolt connection is supposed to rely on friction in at least two axis and at worst bolt tension in the third axis
this is one of the reasons for torque specs
if the bolt is getting sheared or bent or if the bolted material is getting cut by the bolt then it was engineered or assembled wrong

Hahaha this fag op asked where to find 100 free quill stems on /n/ and was ridiculed off the board

>>2793372
You can use a front wheel to make a "Chinese wheelbarrow".

There's not a lot of English language info about it, so look up "Gametote". This particular thing uses a motorcycle wheel, but it's much the same idea--the load centered over the wheel.

And you could reuse the handlebars, brakes, and brake levers to have.... brakes.

>>2798543
lol wtf people buy that? you could make that from two bicycle forks, four quill stems, and two metal poles

>>2798570
Not everyone has the equipment to weld the frame tubing etc. BTW a dual wheel like the Skedco stretcher takes more weight.

Note the angles of the tubing and how the frame works. Two forks won't make that. Best way by far is do what that maker did and use a stick of clean steel tubing cut and joined as they did. Take a closer look at the design. Easy to make with a welder and drill press though.

>>2800695
>Two forks won't make that

Yes they will. Quill stem in the steerer tube, metal tube in the quill stem where the handlebar would be, another quill stem onto that, now you have 360 degrees of rotation and can have the fork at any angle. More quill stems and tubes for the frame and it's done.

>>2800744
What stops all those friction clamp and expansion joints from shifting under load? Prayer?

>>2802932
Physics. Show me which joint can shift when every joint is opposed by an opposite force