podcasts
Collection
Collection for podcasts • 511 items • Updated • 2
text stringlengths 15 7.54k |
|---|
Speaker A: Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is AsI wind. ASI Wind is one of the top magicians and mentalists in the world. Now... |
Speaker B: Thank you for having me. |
Speaker A: I can't tell you how excited I am to have you here today. I've seen you do your live shows twice. Once in Los Angeles, once in New York, and both times there were three major effects. First of all, I was absolutely astonished. There's truly no hyperbole that can capture what you are capable of doing. Just by... |
Speaker B: Yes. So, first of all, a lot of people think, do you ever fail? Do you ever get it wrong? And the truth is, there's something they don't know. We're gonna reveal some secrets here. A lot of people don't know that we are very much like jazz musicians. I'm not a musician. I'm gonna probably butcher this analog... |
Speaker A: Tell me more about that, because, you. |
Speaker B: Know, I'm relying on the bank of information you have in your head against you. It's Tai chi. I know what you know, and I know that whenever you view anything, you have to fill in the blanks with lots of information. I show you a couple of things and say, okay, this makes sense, this da da da. And I know how... |
Speaker A: I'm very curious about the role of emotion in the co authoring of these tricks. By the way, folks, the conversation we're having today is not just about magic tricks and mentalists. This occurs at the level of interactions between people one to one. This occurs at the level of media, to the general audience ... |
Speaker B: Sure, sure. |
Speaker A: So tell me if this trick is possible, and if so, one of the possible ways that you would do this. I think I've seen you do something similar to this, or other mentalists do something similar to this. You're standing in a room full of people, let's say 50 people, and you have a piece of paper and a pen, and y... |
Speaker B: It's a classic. |
Speaker A: A classic, okay. Classic of magic for people like me. We want to know at least one solution to that challenge. How does, what's one way in which a magician could do that? Obviously, we start to go to the physical explanation, okay, somebody underneath the table that the piece of paper was on wrote down the n... |
Speaker B: Wow. We need 2 hours. Today's sake, this one. So here's the deal. I just noticed something as you were going through all the options as someone, I assume you're not a magician. No, I just realized that a quality of magic is that it ignites your imagination and your creativity. You just basically saw somethin... |
Speaker A: Staying with my question of how a trick like that is done, you really want to know? Well, I don't think you're actually going to tell me these specific order of operations to make it happen. I don't expect that. But I can think of two endpoints for exploring this. One is, or at least two. One is to manipulat... |
Speaker B: Correct. |
Speaker A: A good example of this would be people who, sadly, have some form of dementia. They often will find themselves in a room doing something. And if you ask them, hey, what were you doing? They don't say, I don't know. They say, oh, you know, I came in here to do something, and they create these elaborate storie... |
Speaker B: Experiments. I love that word. |
Speaker A: Right? And here we agree that we were talking about science today, as we always do whenever I see you. And in experiments, as people may or may not know, you ask a question, but you pose hypotheses. So you say, like, how do we cure cancer? But then you pose a hypothesis. You say, I think it's going to be cur... |
Speaker B: I see where you're going with this, and I love using the word experiments. One of my heroes, Chan Canasta, was a psychologist who used psychology in his work as a magician, as a mentalist. And he never called his pieces tricks or magic. He called them experiments. And he was careful about it. It's not just a... |
Speaker A: Yeah, it's like these crazy people that climb up the side of buildings with no ropes. I mean, we don't want to see them fall, but the possibility that they could fall is what's exciting. The movie free solo with Alex Honell. We all know at the beginning he lives. He lives, and yet you want to see it in case ... |
Speaker B: That's the brilliance of David Blaine, who I consider one of my dearest friend and one of my favorite magicians in the world and what he does. I mean, we can talk about him at length, but, you know, blending real stuff with magic and it's almost. Sometimes it's hard to tell what is real and what's not. And I... |
Speaker A: I'd like to take a brief moment and thank one of our sponsors. And that's ag one. Ag one is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also contains adaptogens. I started taking ag one way back in 2012. The reason I started taking it, and the reason I still take it every day, is that it ensures that I meet all o... |
Speaker B: Again, the question. |
Speaker A: Yeah, so the question is, have you done, or is it possible to get people to think that you're holding up a piece of paper that says, now I forget the numbers. My working memory wasn't engaged enough to do it. Whatever. 348 that's not what I said earlier, when in fact, they are looking at a piece of paper tha... |
Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's actually a piece where you have a piece of paper, literally printed piece of paper, and you control someone's mind. You say, I'm going to make you see things distorted. You're not going to see reality the way everybody in this room, including me, will see it, starting now. And... |
Speaker A: How can that be? |
Speaker B: So the truth is, and I'll reveal a little bit about that, there is no trickery here, as far as, you know, sleight of hand or anything like that. Hill early was a master at making people either want to stick to a decision or change it. He would basically manipulate their insecurity their ego, something about ... |
Speaker A: He could literally control their bias toward one or the other. |
Speaker B: Yes. |
Speaker A: Does it involve touching their body in any particular way? |
Speaker B: Maybe. |
Speaker A: Maybe? Yeah. Many times in your performances and the performances of other mentalists and magicians, they will say, pick a number, pick a card, and then right before the trick is about to advance, they'll say, are you sure? Okay. |
Speaker B: Oh, that's a big one. |
Speaker A: And they'll say, yes, I'm sure, or no, I'm going to switch. Okay. And based on what you told us already, it's clear that the skilled mentalist or magician can work with either scenario. Maybe it's the improvisation. But what I want to know is when you look at somebody's physical body, how they sit, their sha... |
Speaker B: So it's not the big things that will reveal to me what, because I do kind of like, profile a little bit for the magic purposes, what kind of trick I will do with you and what I can't do with you, what I will do with this guy or that guy. Right? And it's not the shirt, it's not how you wear your hair. It's re... |
Speaker A: His name is literally the eccentric. |
Speaker B: It's a. It's a different name, but he goes by Avner, the eccentric, and he's a wonderful performer. It's even hard to categorize what he does, but he's. I'm doing disservice. A clown, a mime, a juggler, a magician. And I've never seen someone who's better at what we call audience management. Something we cal... |
Speaker A: Really? |
Speaker B: Yeah. So if I go, you feel. You kind of tend to relax with me. Now, if you want a more exaggerated example of that, if you watch a movie and it's really tense and there's tension, you will start feeling tension. Right. We're kind of like, empathy is a big, big part of what we do. That's why one of the things... |
Speaker A: This makes a lot of sense. I do some live events, and I don't think about whether or not I exhale or inhale when I get out there, but I definitely try and get out there and just kind of take it all in and relax. And we have what I hope is a relaxing, interesting conversation. And you kind of work with the am... |
Speaker B: Absolutely. So it starts with the first thing. Look, you come in cold. The audience, as you said, the first item, quoting Avner here, the first thing they do is they say, I hope this doesn't suck. And also the performer says, I hope it's not gonna suck. The starting point is, it depends. Expectation could va... |
Speaker A: It's like an intimacy. |
Speaker B: Yes. And that, to me, by the way, is way more important than me fooling people. Like, if somebody came to me after the show and said, oh, wow, your magic is unbelievable. I have no idea how you did it. That's the lowest compliment I can get. And thankfully and gratefully, often I get the most common one is t... |
Speaker A: They feel connected to you, and I. |
Speaker B: Love that because to me, the magic is important. I want it to be really deceptive. I want it to be impossible and beautiful and whatnot. But to me, it's also a vehicle to connect with people, because at the end of the day, that's what it is. That's the only difference I can have, because there's a lot of mag... |
Speaker A: That's how I recalled the trick that you did outside the person who initially connected us. Just absolutely terrific. What I call close contact card magician Franco Pascali here in Los Angeles. He has amazing card skills. He does something with his card tricks, I noticed. I'll go to the magic castle as often... |
Speaker B: That's nice. |
Speaker A: And it reminds me of the experience of seeing you do magic or mentalist work. |
Speaker B: Sure. |
Speaker A: I'm yet to see you go, oh, my goodness. But I think it's the sense that you're collaborating in something, and there's this giving over of self. Like, I trust ossie to take me someplace with this. So the resistant people, the people that sort of, like, I'm not gonna let him fool me. Right? What's so amazing ... |
Speaker B: So first of all, the transformation. Somebody's a believer, and you show magic and nice. It's wonderful. We can celebrate magic together. But if somebody is a skeptic, really skeptical, and I've had really, and I sense that I could convert them, I could transform them, and the audience watches this transform... |
Speaker A: It's almost like a musician at a wedding. You know, they're the people that jump up and dance immediately. But if you're a skilled musician, you get that person that, you know, their wife is saying, come on, let's dance, and won't move. And then maybe you hit a certain motif in the music, and the person taps... |
Speaker B: So here's the deal. Magic could be and often is intimidating. I am basically challenging your intellect. And some people, if they take it the wrong way, what they hear is, you're telling me that you're smarter than me. You're telling me you know things I don't know, and I'm not even close to knowing, so scre... |
Speaker A: You're going to violate their sense of self trust. That's, I think, the fear. |
Speaker B: Absolutely. And as a magician or as an artist, if I use that, but my goal is to also educate them as I do the magic that we're creating, this safe space where these things could happen. And it's clear that I'm using it for your own good. You know, I did a whole foolish act, exactly. About knowing and not kno... |
Speaker A: Are they alive still? |
Speaker B: Chan is not. And Tommy pest. Juan is still kicking butt in Madrid. |
Speaker A: I think I saw him at the castle. He's very, very exuberant. |
Speaker B: So he's a hero, and I'm his student. But let's talk about Tommy for a sec. So, Tommy, for a long time, he did magic. Magicians did not know how it works. It was so devious that even magicians did not know how it works. And at some point, he released some dvd's that teach his magic. And the trick is very simp... |
Speaker A: No. I mean, yes, yes. |
Speaker B: But even magicians who saw that, they go, I have no idea how it's done. No idea. And then I remember watching the explanation for the first time, and I was thinking that the method was by far more interesting, intriguing, revealing, just beautiful. It made the trick less. Like I said, you should perform the ... |
Speaker A: Are you willing to share a little bit of what the explanation is, or is that not. |
Speaker B: No, no. |
Speaker A: Okay. |
Speaker B: But I will explain a little bit. So I tell what the explanation was that it revealed that he's an engineer, that he can build props that are, like, ingenious. Again, I'm going around it, but at some point, the person who opens the box is doing part of the trick, and he doesn't know it. He's creating the tric... |
Speaker A: This is the one you did for Penn and Teller? Yeah. You can describe it or. I can describe it. |
Speaker B: Sure. I mean, let's see how you remember it. |
Speaker A: Right. I have more interest in listening than speaking, but I'll tell you how I remember it. Okay. You're in front of a very large audience that includes the scientist show guys at Penn and Teller who basically debunks stuff. They're kind of. |
Speaker B: They tried to figure it out. |
Speaker A: They try and figure stuff out. Some. They are asked to pick someone in the audience. They pick a guy. As I recall, you wore a green and white sweater. |
Speaker B: Wow. You have a good memory. |
Speaker A: Yeah. He stands up and you ask him to pick a card. I think I forget what it is. Jack of clubs, perhaps. Let's just say, for sake of example, jack of clubs. You said, are you sure you're now on stage? Mind you, there are hundreds of people in the audience, maybe more. And you say, are you sure? And he goes, y... |
Speaker B: Cigar box. |
Speaker A: Cigar box. It's clear. |
Speaker B: No, no, not yet. |
Speaker A: No, not yet. |
Speaker B: Later. |
Speaker A: Okay. |
Speaker B: First, it's just a wooden cigar box. |
Speaker A: Wooden box, that's right. And a mug. A white mug, not unlike the mug I have here, except white. You take a sip from that mug, and then at some point during this exchange, and then you open the box, and you pull from the box, of course, the card that he selected. And everyone goes, oh, my goodness. How could ... |
Speaker B: All the other cards are blank. |
Speaker A: All the other cards are blank. Right. So there's more to it. So then it turns out that there are 52 different decks underneath the table, and it's on a turnstile, so you can actually dial it in. |
Speaker B: And let's keep the ending surprise. Right, so there's a surprise ending. |
Speaker A: Right. So then it at least seemingly makes sense as to how ASI did this. He has all the different option possible options available to him physically, but the audience doesn't realize that. Also, the mug, by the way, engages a magnet system that allows him to dial the deck of cards to the correct one. That a... |
Speaker B: Good memory. |
Speaker A: Meaning it's all. So the straightforward explanation is it's all physical trickery by way of props. |
Speaker B: Correct. So here's the deal. What I tried to achieve with this piece is, first to make people feel magic. So the trick, it's a good trick, you know, name any card. The card he named was reversed, and then it was the only blue card in the deck. And then all the other cards were blank. So it's clearly the only... |
Speaker A: Now, something like that. Yeah. |
Speaker B: Now. So people felt what it's like to see a good card trick. All right? And then I wanted her to feel what it's like to know. And the lesson here is, you know, you could satisfy your curiosity. Oh, that's how it's done. And you can go on with your life, and that's it. And that's what happens to a magician wh... |
Speaker A: Didn't that you share with us? |
Speaker B: No, no, no. I got to tell you, it was primitive. It was simple. And the moment he revealed the gimmick that caused the handkerchief to disappear, I could not see the trick again. Every time he does, it's this. Yeah. |
Speaker A: It's like falling out of love. |
Speaker B: Something like. |
Speaker A: Yeah, I really. I mean, a previous guest on the podcast, Carl Dysroth, one of the best bioengineers, neuroscientists, and psychiatrists in the world, went on Lex Friedman podcast, and they were talking about love. And Carl said something interesting that's very relevant here. He said. He's a colleague of min... |
Speaker B: It's great. It's very close. It's very close to the feeling you have as a magician the first time you actually get exposed. Right. It disappoints you because you have a desire for it to be real. The desire of a young magician is when I see something like that, is that it's a supernatural power. And the first... |
Speaker A: Perhaps now would be the appropriate time for you to reveal the non reveal of the explanation of the trick. Because one of the amazing things about the trick that you did with selecting the card that the gentleman in the audience, a penn and teller, had mentally and verbally selected, is that at the very end... |
Speaker B: It's a picture of 52. |
Speaker A: It's a picture, which means that the explanation that they got, while entirely plausible, if that's actually what had happened, is not at all what had happened. In other words, you pop out at the end that they don't actually know how it's done. You know how it's done, and I'm not even going to bother to ask ... |
Speaker B: Yes. And the reason I wanted to go there, I wanted them to feel magic then to feel what it's like to know something and the fact that it's irreversible. You can't unknow a trick once you know how it's done. And then what? I said, look, I made a choice. I chose to learn the secrets to magic, and I'm paying a ... |
Speaker A: And we're collaborating in that to some extent, because when people go to a magic show, they understand that. Another former guest on the podcast, Rick Rubindeh, who needs no introduction, but by the way, he's a big fan of magic, has said to me before that there are only two things in life that are absolutel... |
Speaker B: So maybe there's another analogy there, because we know that professional wrestlers are faking it, and we know a magician fakes it, too. He fakes supernatural powers. |
End of preview. Expand in Data Studio
README.md exists but content is empty.
- Downloads last month
- 5