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Changing from whole wheat to rye feeding a starter = a bad idea?
I've got a starter that's been fed whole wheat since I've had it (only 4 bakes). This morning I decided to feed it rye insteadIt's not really responding very perkily. Plus it's rather cementlike. First time using rye so not sure if this is to be expec... | First 4 bakes - how old is
First 4 bakes - how old is the starter.Cement like - different flours require different amounts of water, rye tends to be on the thirsty side compared to ww or white. Regardless of flours used, go by consistency and maintain that.Not responding as usual - different food, different behavior. I... |
Whole Wheat Sourdough Starter
Has anyone tried making a sourdough starter from whole wheat flour?I'm thinking the higher ash content of ww flour might help in my never-ending quest for more lactic-acid sourness.Note that the old SFSD recipes state that clear flour was used for the sponge. I've tried this and it didn't ... | Ash values for KA flours
I got these values from KA a few years ago:Whole Wheat: 1.5%All-Purpose: 0.5%Bread Flour: 0.5%Clear: 0.8%I calculated that 70% KA AP or Bread flour + 30% WW will get you approximately the same ash level as their clear, although the composition and flavor aren't going to be the same. |
Open crumb soft crust on one side
I just joined to ask (always visit site) because I am not sure what causes the issue on the right side of the batard (bottom of the pic). I believe it is shaping. It's the second time this has happened. 85% hydration. Also, I am wondering if poor scoring technique has anything to d... | Looks great to me
Can't find anything wrong with that loaf. Looks delicious! If you don't want large holes in the crumb then de-gas the dough a bit more by popping the larger bubbles. But other than that it's a perfect loaf. |
dough turns wet during proof
Hi thereI'm maken sourdough bread on a daily bases for over 3 years now. I think I know what a good loaf looks like.Since recently, it started with a new batch of flour, there is something wrong.The dough feels slack after bulk, proof is medium, but most of all, the loaf starts to 'sweat'. ... | Yes.
Your new batch of flour came with a higher moisture content than the previous batch. It happens.Once a baker learns how the dough should feel, he/she holds back a little water with a new batch (and sometimes on every bake) and watches how the new batch behaves, then adds in the "hold-back water" as needed.Big-tim... |
add oat flour
I'm looking to add oat flour to a sourdough recipe.. If I would normally do 80% bread flour, 20% whole wheat, 75% hydration, would swapping in oat flour to say 60% bread flour, 20% whole wheat, 20% oat flour require a change in the hydration? I've seen oat porridge recipes recommend lower hydration becaus... | Go by feel.
From your numbers, it looks like you're subbing in oat flour for the white bread flour.Oat flour is generally whole grain, that is, with all the bran. White bread flour has little to no bran.Bran "needs" more water than white/refined flour, so your new formula will most likely require more water than the ol... |
Bagatelle T65 - First test of many... Amazing flour!
Actually is the second. In the first try I managed to over knead the dough while doing S&F!! It was sad, but it shows how easily this flour develops the gluten. Very easy. After the @#$$%& was done I reached the net to find more about the flour, and apparently this ... | Beautiful.
Have been trying to find T65 for a while. I think I've found where to get it. Thanks for posting. Loaves look gorgeous.hester |
My starter has all the sudden become...weird. Why could this be?
It was tripling or more in about 6 hours. All the sudden it just, stopped working. I use bottled water so it's not that. I did change my flour so I thought it was that but I bought my old flour and it still did it. It barely rises. Occasionally, it'll ris... | How are you feeding it?
Be specific please. Include temps. And amounts, how often, any chilling?I notice your starter has gradually been problematic over a longer amount of time. Starters can balk at a change in flour but let the starter work thru the feeding until it rises. Will know more with details. How does it... |
Irregular holes in Sourdough bread - help please :(
Hey everyone,How's it going? I hope all is well.I've been recently running into an issue regarding oven spring and irregular holes with my sourdough bread.I usually bake with a cast iron dutch oven and usually get very good oven spring and consistency.Recently, I've t... | Large irregular holes
Surrounded by a tight crumb points to under fermented. You need to increase the bulk ferment time. I think the very long autolyse can make the dough feel ready when it's not. For an 80% bread flour dough 30-60 minutes is ample. It's done to allow the flour to absorb the water before the salt goes ... |
Purple discoloration at the bottom of my discard jar
Hello everyone Need some help figuring out if my discard needs to be "discarded" or is it still usable. There seems to be some purple discolouration at the bottom of the jar. I keep my whole wheat and wheat flour starters in the same container and this is a tad bit o... | I would discard that
To be in the safe side. Looks like something sinister has invaded that discard. You should be maintaining your starter in such a way that has minimum or no discard. |
Increase for Volume Baking
Hi! So I currently feed my starter as follows 40g Starter/40g water/40g flour. I’m unsure how to increase that without discarding and feeding with new starter,flour and water. at the scheduled feeding time, do I just add more flour and water to the last feed to increase it? Thanks!! | Chenoa, what do you want to
Chenoa, what do you want to do? If you want to end up with more than 120 grams of starter, you have 2 options. Either refresh twice at the ratio 1:1:1 , so for example, if you want to end up with 240 grams of starter, the first refresh would be 30:30:30 and when that starter matured,... |
Trouble with Crackes
Hi all, I have been trying this recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22562/sourdough-crackers from Ron, but I can't get the crackers to be softer. My multigrain baking soda crackers aren't this crunchy. Is the baking soda/powder the kicker or is there just not enough fat? I have had to put my o... | In afraid you'll find baking
In afraid you'll find baking powder is the trick. At least the easiest way to go. To get that soda cracker texture you really have to limit gluten development - to something like close to none. The advantage here with baking powder/soda is you add everything, mix just barely enough to incor... |
Ears
I can’t seem to get an ear on my sourdough bread. I bake them in a cast iron pot 13 quart. I feel like I am getting it tight when I shape it. As soon as I score the ear, it opens up wide. | As soon as you score it opens up wide
Sounds like you're scoring too deep. Scoring works when everything comes together just so from the ferment to shaping. When scoring don't go too deep and score at a 45° angle. Look for videos on how to score and then it's just practice, practice and more practice. |
Baked in flan ring?
A visit to the County Fair and review of winning entries left me with a question. Did these entries get turned from the banneton into a flan ring or cake pan? This bread has a slight "muffin top" which makes me believe so, but that's a technique I've never heard about. Another entry, sibling, has th... | Or low pie pan. Look at the
Or low pie pan. Look at the curvature of the bottom corner, seems like it was baked in a low pan or dish. I would take points off for the void in the middle suggesting less than ideal forming and/or degassing. |
New (to me) Flour & Starter Home
I had some time to kill this weekend, and my wife bought me the Sourhouse Goldie for my starter.In short, I would say the starter warmer wouldn't be necessary at all, and not advantageous for many. That said, I keep my house rather cold, particularly in the winter (~60f). As such, it do... | Looks like it's working
for you. Yes, a little bit longer bulk rise might help the crumb. A cold room really slows it down. I'm now using the bottom shelf of my stereo cabinet as a bread proofer. The electronics are always kicking off a little heat. |
Over 2 weeks and still no yeast?
Hello all! I've been browsing this site for advice and decided to make an account and post for some help :) I have a sourdough starter in the works, but I have yet to have any rise from it and there is definitely no yeast there.She has a pleasant faint fermented smell and bubbles slight... | More info needed.Flour, feed
More info needed.Flour, feed ratios and schedule etc etc. |
bread burn out
Just a quick survey...I see the same folks here over the course of years and I'm always impressed by the dedication to bread. I too love bread. But I get bread burn out after a few months. Then I go cold for awhile and find my way back.Do you ever just want to take a break from the starters, the science,... | Break from starters and
Break from starters and sourdough - oh yeah. Sourdough has its place, but it's not everywhere. Some things just don't come out/taste the same when made from a sourdough starter. It's another tool basically.Science and carbs - never. Both are my friends. Enjoy! |
Tartine levain refresh
I've been regularly making the Tartine country loaf- but I essentially build a new levain each time I make it. The past few times I've kept the remaining levain and fed it some flour (following his instructions to make a dry paste) . Does anyone have experience doing this? I'd like to use the le... | Depends on your meaning of
Depends on your meaning of levain.If you mean starter - that does sound a little over the top and would not be considered a normal procedure.If you mean a preferment (a % of the formula mixed and let to sit for a period of time before completing the formula) - yeah many take that route.Saving... |
Is it possible to make a sourdough starter from actual seeds?
Hello All!I’m still super new to sourdough starters and I remember reading something cool about yeast water and thought it was super interesting how it all worked. So, in my adventures reading up on it, I asked myself a question and I really couldn’t find an... | Well, yeast water works by
Well, yeast water works by cultivating yeast supplied by some source. Seeds, being in a shell and with what amounts to an impervious coating, wouldn't be a place I'd expect to find a good source of this yeast. But, you won't know for sure unless you try it, so give it a shot and see what happ... |
Threw out my starter by accident, how should I use my current pizza dough to recreate it?
The unthinkable happened and I forgot to refresh my stiff starter. My current pizza dough is undergoing a bulk ferment in the fridge so it kind of lives on in there?? What's the best way to recreate my poor starter, should I hack ... | Rebuilding Starter
You've got nothing to lose except for some water and flour if you should use a 30 g piece of your dough to rebuild so give it a try. It may take a few feedings and discards to get what you think is an adequate amount of starter so have some patience. The salt content may slow down the first feeding b... |
help! feed starter unbleached flour or wait?
I brought my starter to my parents house so I can bake bread while I'm here, but all my mom has is bleached flour. Is it ok to feed my starter using bleached flour, or should I wait until I go to the store tomorrow? I fed my starter at 122 last night at 9, and by the looks o... | Making a starter using bleached flour is not advised
But if you have a mature starter I don't see why it can't be fed bleached flour. The reason we don't use bleached flour to make a starter is because it's been stripped of all the goodness it needs to become a starter. However it can still be food for the bacteria and... |
Fools crumb？
Would love any insights on the crumb. Thank you! | I think the difference between this crumb
And a better crumb (by that I mean more even as supposed to very open as a good crumb is subjective) is slightly more adventurous with the ferment and when shaping knock out the larger air bubbles. I don't think it's a fools crumb or a drastic fools crumb at least. I think it l... |
My starter problem
Hello everybodyThis is my first post here at TFL, I found very interesting your thread about "pineapple solution" on new sourdough starters but my problem is a bit different..Recently my sourdough seems too much proteolityc (it degrades the dough very rapidly..and when I fold it it simply rip off!), ... | How old is your starter? I'm
How old is your starter? I'm not familiar with the pineapple method, but I do remember when making mine, at the beginning my starter had bubbles but had a terrible smell. I was told that it was the bad bacteria and that I should keep feeding/discarding. Took about 3 weeks to really get some... |
How long should I cook my breads for in a Dutch oven and how do I prevent the outside from burning?
I think that I am undercooking my bread, but I have no idea how long I should be baking them for. I feel like after about 10 minutes after taking the lid of the dutch oven off, my breads start getting too dark. So how ca... | It depends on the size of
It depends on the size of your loaf and other factors. How long do you keep it covered in the DO? Do you have convection on? Or the grill/broiler?I tend to bake ~900g loafs, for around 20-25 min covered at 260C and around the same time uncovered at 240C. |
Starter bubbles
My starter doubles or more in size, and seems to work pretty well, but I think it should be doing better. I see some people get starters that look very strong with large bubbles and they make great bread. My bubbles are always smaller but plentiful, but I am still not sure it is the best it can be. I us... | I treat my starter as seed only
and use it to build preferments before adding to the dough. You say you use 70g rye flour + 140g bread flour + 140g whole wheat flour in your starter mix. Considering I only build 50-100g of starter at any one time this seems like an awful lot of starter to me. I think you need to explai... |
Can I delay/pause bulk ferment by putting dough in the fridge?
I’m following a recipe that calls for an 8-10 hour overnight bulk fermentation on the counter (first time trying this method but I have a cold kitchen so it seems like it’ll work great). The plan was to have the dough ready by 9-10pm, BF overnight, then pro... | Yes. But take into account
Yes. But take into account that it'll take a while for the dough to cool down, and also to warm up. |
Commercial Yeast in Sourdough?
I woke up late one morning and missed the peak of my starter. I decided to spoon a little into some water to see if it would float. It floated for about 3 seconds and then sank. Instead of feeding the starter, I just skipped the autolyse and incorporated everything into the bowl and knead... | Perfectly ok
You did well. If for any reason your sourdough fails on you then you've hit upon a good way to save the dough. Sprinkle on some yeast, combine well and carry on. The starter/levain will impart flavour (and possible some rise) but it'll be a hybrid bread at best. A good save! |
Starting a new culture.
It's been years since I had one and today I started a new sourdough. 2 T apf, 2 T warm water with juniper berries. I soaked the berries for about 1/2 hour, then mixed in the flour. It's in a 1/2 gallon glass jar. Wish me luck! Tomorrow, it'll be fed the apf and warm water with a small pinch o... | Half gallon jar?
wow, that's positive thinking...but it might be too big. I tend to use much smaller containers.Good luck! May the forces be with you! |
Help improving my loaf
I thought I'd share my loaf and crumb in hopes of improving it.It's an acceptable loaf - decent rise, but I'd like a more airy and even crumb.I used starter at the top of its rise. I felt like I formed sufficient dough strength through lamination and coil folds. I bulk fermented it for ~ 6 hours,... | Struggling to see a problem.
That's a beautiful loaf in all respects. The thing that we home bakers struggle with is consistency. If we were in a commercial bakery shaping hundreds of loaves every day, then we'd soon figure out that a little less pressure here and a firmer push there give us the result we want. Bakin... |
how to choose between different levains
I've been baking sourdough for some years. I started with a levain from a friend, I tried to create my own a few times and failed, until one day it worked (it was created using AP flour). I've been using this levain (let's call him 1.0) for around 2 or 3 years, it's really strong... | Why choose?
Hey I am in Brazil too, just moved to Recife, any recommendations on good flour brands and where to find rye and farinha integral? In terms of your levains I think the wonderful smell is definitely coming from using more whole grains. They tend to be more active because they have enzymes in them that the ... |
My bread seems undercooked and dense on the inside and I dont know why.
I think it may be underproofed since its getting colder, but I swear I see bubbles all over the place and it seems nice and airy. I did ~200g 100% hydration starter for 1000g flour. I cant remember the amount of water but it was around 75% hydratio... | That's a short bake for a large loaf.
Have you checked the internal temperature bread at the end of the bake? For a lean bread, which seems to be what you have described, the internal temperature ought to be somewhere in the 205F to 210F range. You may need to extend the uncovered baking time by another 10 minutes, or... |
How will salt affect an autolyse?
How will salt affect an autolyse? If I ad the salt, water, and flour at the same time and let it rest for 1 - 2 hours, how will the salt affect the dough and the process?If I autolyse flour and water and then after the autolyse is complete the salt is mixed in, the dough tightens drama... | In Trevor's e-book,
Open Crumb Mastery, he discusses this question in the earlier chapters about mixing. He admits that adding salt to the autolyse actually makes it NOT an autolyse in the strictest definition of the word - he prefers to use the word "pre-mix."But in his process, once mixed, the dough is refrigerated ... |
My second loaf
My first loaf was done in a loaf pan and while it didn't rise well I preferred the crust. I used 2 tin loaf pans and clamps. This time I used a tray of water and it just came out kind of leathery. I'll go back to some sort of steam trap next time. The crumb is OK but I'd like more rise. I took it out at ... | Do you have a dutch oven by
Do you have a dutch oven by chance or a lodge combo cooker? I think this would really help with the crust. You can also look at the tartine recipe https://tartinebakery.com/stories/country-bread - i've seen some folks on youtube that basically follow this entire thing but use a mixer instead... |
Sourdough loaf without a starter
As I know several days in advance when I will next bake, do I really need a starter sitting in the fridge? After all, if it takes 6 days to develop a starter and each day it is fed ~50gm flour ~50gm water at the end of the six days I would have 300gm water and then I could just add the... | 6 days to make a starter
If all goes according to plan! Your experience this time might not be the same experience next time. Makes sense to save some starter and refrigerate it till the next bake instead of starting from scratch each time. What happens if you wish for another bake 3 days later? The baking bug hits you... |
What is causing a dull crust?
I've come back for another try at sourdough during these times, and I've had decent success, but I can't achieve the shiny, crisp crusts that I see online. There is a dullness from the flour (combination of rice and whole wheat) used to dust the basket and the crust is just slightly thick.... | High humidity
I think that the consensuses will be, a lack of moisture (steam) during that crucial first 5-7 minutes of the bake is the root cause. Baking in a covered Dutch oven, until the loaf begins to set, is proven to keep the bread in a very desirable high humidity environment. In leu of a heavy cumbersome Dutch... |
Starter doubling in 5 hours but dough doesn't follow. What gives?
My starter is yielding good breads, but I'm still struggling to get assertive signs on bulk fermentation and proofing. Mainly due to lack of teaching and multiple different methods on baking bread. When I bake, I add the levain at peak rise. It always pa... | Feed regime versus final regime
You say that your inoculation is 20%. Is that also your regime for building the starter? Because if that regime is more like 30% or even 50% then the starter is going to double more quickly than your bulk. |
Starter too long to rise?
Hi all!I've been baking sourdough with the same starter for the past 2 months now and it feels like it is still too slow to double in volume. I feed it in a 1:1:1 ratio with 50% Whole Wheat and 50% All-Purpose flours.It will then take 7 to 8 hours for my starter to double in volume. Same goes ... | At least it can do the job
Even if it is taking a long time. How warm do you keep the starter/dough? |
Bread wont open up!
Ok so my bread wont open. I mix then give it 3-4 hours bulk ferment then shape and put in fridge overnight, i sit it on bench for 10 then straight in the oven with steam. Really struggling, can anyone help?Thanks.
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20200923_081122.jpg | Proof a little shorter
I think there was not enough food left for the yeast to do get a ovenspring. |
Someone uncovered my starter
I was going to feed my starter today, and I found someone left the lid off of it and now it's all crusted over. What should I do to it? | Skim the dried out top and discard
Then carry on feeding the healthier looking starter as normal making sure there are no dried bits clinging to the side as it could go mouldy. |
French flour
Hi and thank you for an encellet site.Living in asia make it hard to find quality flour for my sourdough bread. Got hold of some German flour 405, but that kill my starter and I hade to start from scratch again. I also found German bread flour 550 and that looks ok.Recently I found a company that importing... | Wouldn't it have to be...
... some truly terrible flour, to kill your starter? It sounds like you're saying there was poison in there - but surely you didn't buy poisoned flour. |
Is my basket too small? How to achieve a good ear?
Hi Fresh loaf communityI have a few questions on improving my sourdough. I've been baking sourdough for 2 monthsI currently am finding that my sourdough is rising above the basket. I'm using a 20cm banneton and photo is approx 9hrs proof in the fridge after bulk fermen... | The banneton is way too small
The banneton is way too small. Either reduce the weight of your dough or use a larger banneton. The color and blisters on your bread is excellent.The bread is very close to producing an ear. Keep in mind that boules are a difficult shape to get ears. Batards are much more suited to them.Yo... |
Tartine Country Loaf: Should I feed my starter 4 hours before making the levian?
Hi All,I know the Tartine Country Loaf really calls for controlling the acidity in the levian and the final bread. I was thinking that perhaps it would be a good idea to feed my starter about 4 hours before even making the Levian as that i... | Chad Robertson and Jennifer
Chad Robertson and Jennifer Latham have a new audiobook (paper version fall 2021) describing their new method for the Tartine Country Loaf where they do feed the starter twice. Their example is to start at 7:30 AM with 200 g water + 200 g high extraction flour + 80 g of starter, place in 85 ... |
Amount of Levain Based on Retardation of Shaped Loaves
Hello all! This will be my first post in The Fresh Loaf, I'm excited to join this community!So basically my question is this: is there a general rule for the percentage of starter/levain that you would use in a sourdough formula based on how long you want to retard... | Well, the general rule (and
Well, the general rule (and one of the basics) is, less leavening agent = longer times, and vice versa.I always figured x amount of starter/yeast will do something in 4 hrs, 2x would be 2 hrs, .5x would be 8 hrs., if everything else is the same. Is that exact - hardly, but you get the idea.T... |
Open Crumb Microwave Sourdough (OCMS)
OK, I titled this to get attention and partly in jest, but see for yourself.Wherever sourdough starters are explained, the subject of what to do with discards inevitably comes up. Crackers and pancakes (the breakfast type, waffles, or savory pan-fried flatbread) are commonly given... | Microwave bread
still has a big problem in being accepted. Cake is slowly gaining acceptance baked in the microwave but perhaps because the baking process is not completely understood, it still resides in the realm of magic to many people. You can find baking bread in a microwave if you look for it. In particular so... |
Improving the rise and crumb of my loaves
My most recent loaf looked like this: The large alveoli only appear at the end of the loaves. The crumb in the middle is a little tight. The flavor is exceptionally good. There are some large bubbles just under the crust, but I don’t mind these over muchThe formula for this lo... | what oven?
Welcome to TFL!Oven: Gas? Electric? Convection? if electric, which heating elements (top, bottom, back wall) does it have, and which of those heating elements are you using? BTW, ice cubes are bad (until you know what you are doing). Better to pour 1 cup boiling or near boiling water, into a pre-heated pan.... |
Bread Has Wings...?
Hi there! I've been doing home baking for a long time, but I'm pretty new to sourdough. As I'm turning out these loaves, I'm noticing that they have "wings." They're rising really high and kind of flipping out and/or getting kind of crispy and brown where I score them. It makes a sharp edge on the s... | Its actually something that
Its actually something that lots aspire to do creating an Ear, usually achieved with the cutting angle of the blade and the depth of the cut. kind regards Derek |
Scoring turns to 'tearing'.
Hi there,I'm very new to sourdough; in fact, I've only just baked my first loaf. Thanks to lots of bits and bobs I've picked up here, the starter has been fine, and the general bread making went fine - it's probably the lightest loaf I've ever made. My question is regarding scoring, and wh... | That's your first sourdough loaf? Really?
It's beautiful!There's nothing wrong with your scoring. The burst area is exactly what you said: A "pressure outlet." I do not see this as a fault. However, if you really want to prevent this, you could proof your loaf just a bit more. That will reduce the pressure by reducing ... |
Sourdough starter improving air quality?
Hi all!So my question is, can an active sourdough starter kept out in the open improve air quality? If so, how does it accomplish this?A bit of background: I live in a very small apartment, about 350 square feet. It's an old building, poorly maintained by the landlord, and as a ... | Smell is such a direct sense.
Smell is such a direct sense. When you see a thing there are photons mediating between you and it. When you hear a sound, air is mediating between you and the source. When you smell a thing small bits of it are literally up your nose!I'll guess that the sourdough is triggering all sorts of... |
Sourdough ear
Hey baking connoisseurs, I was thiking of asking a question here..if someone can help me work this out..How can a ear open and spread to both sides like the one in the picture?Usually my loaves have an ear thats opens to only one side.. | Vertical score
You need to score vertically in the center, not at an angle. Just baked one loaf like this today for the first time! Have been scoring at an angle usually before. |
My First Sourdough Loaf
Hello all, glad to have found this site!This is my first go at sourdough. Crust was nice and crispy and the crumb had a slight chewy texture. I would like the crumb to be a little more consistent top to bottom but the taste was fantastic.I look forward to learning a lot from you all. Jeff | Congrats!
And welcome to TFL!That loaf is waaay better than most first attempts at sourdough. At least better than most of mine.What kind of oven and steaming method are you using? |
Need help crust chewy not crunchy
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(227g) ripe (fed) sourdough starter ( starter at 100 percent hydration) (397g) lukewarm water 542 g of bread flour 60 g of whole wheat flour 1 tablespoon (18g) salt I did the bulk ferment in the fridge for 16 hours. ... | What comes to mind first is -
What comes to mind first is - if the loaf was left in the pan too long you'll get a soggy crust. I remove the loaf as soon as it comes out of the oven and let cool on a rack. |
Shape Failing and Gummy Crumb
Not sure what I’m doing wrong. I’m doing the FWSY overnight country blonde recipe. The last two times I have made it, when I turn the dough out of the proofing basket right before baking, it goes completely flat and loses its shape. I decided last time to just “re-do” the shaping step rig... | Likely overproofed
Based on it flattening/losing shape and gummy texture, I would guess this is overproofed. In my experience, the FWSY sourdough recipes will overproof if you follow the overnight bulk ferment unless the temperature is quite low in your house (I believe he says his house is in the low 60's for these ov... |
Newbie assistance on crust and internal temp appreciated.
Hi everyone, very new to sourdough baking, had a few failures early on just following a few youtube vids and finally decided to try and get a bit more serious. I followed the Tartine Country Loaf recipe. The flavor of the bread is fantastic but my two loaves got... | I think your guess about
wondering if maybe you put too much flour in the banneton is correct. Crumb looks good and appears well baked. Maybe check your thermometer for calibration?Appears as though you may have crowded/pinched? the loaf with parchment? when you loaded the DO. |
Unknown material in my sourdough
I've been baking bread for a little while now but only recently got into sourdough. Been tending to my starter for 2 weeks now and felt it was ready to finally make a loaf or 2.I made my starter mix as well as autolyse and everything was fine up until my first shaping when I found stran... | Update: While indeed worm
Update: While indeed worm shaped probing around unfolds it revealing well.. starter mixture. Is it possible this is a gluten protein membrane formation or is the worst case scenario and I need to toss this out? I am not about to eat parasites or worms or anything of the sort. The microscopic s... |
Lievito Madre Starter Storage
Having recently dabbled a little in making Italian style breads, I came across the stiff Italian starter called Lievito Madre.It seems that this is correctly stored wrapped in cloth and tied with twine or submerged under water.I'm just wondering why it is stored like this and whether there... | You need to speak to Michael
mwilson |
Just how important is an 'active' starter. i.e. it passes float test.
I have a question about soughdough starter. I have been baking sourdough for about a year. When I first started I found it very confusing as each recipe and youtube video I looked at seemed to do something different. Autolyse before adding starter, ... | Whatever works!
I'm very new to bread baking, but I'd say whatever works for you! Sounds like you are actually feeding your starter and it doubles just before you bake, so you are using an active starter. If it reliably works after a few days in the fridge, that's awesome (I definitely had problems with the starter goi... |
Stone ground whole grain hydration
I've been using stone ground high extraction and whole wheat from Farmer Ground Flour and while my intuition (based on what I've read and been told) is that the hydration for a miche should be on the cusp of 80%. However, in practice, anything above 77% has proven to be almost unmana... | Very variable
Recently milled whole grain flour, specifically stone milled and impact milled, even if sifted, has a wide range of moisture content, depending on field conditions, and storage methods and weather around harvest and milling times. Big time commercial _roller mills_ "temper" their incoming grain to a stand... |
it was overproof o bad shaping?
Hi, there, I'm kind of new with sourdough, and have not get around it yet, the last loaf had big hole in the top.I'm in a very humid City, and warn, around 33c Max 39c Min 27c.This is what a did:950g white flour (7.5 or 8 % of protein, don't remember well).600g water.100g starter (50g of... | The goes are a sign of over
The holes are a sign of over fermented/proofed. The higher the temp the faster things happen, so cut back on times. Enjoy! |
Valais Rye Walliserbrot
Tony (CalBeachBaker) did a lovely bake following a recipe by The Rye Baker. Thought i'd give it a try but reduced the rye a little, since rye doesn't agree with me, and replaced the coarse rye with a Heritage Whole Wheat mix. I also omitted the IDY to make it a 100% sourdough. Overall Recipe:Who... | Looks good Abe!
Looks good Abe!I particularly enjoy this bread with a little goat cheese.Tony |
Why do starters peak and fall?
We all take it for granted that a starter or levain rises to a peak volume and then starts to fall - but why?There must still be plenty of food left in all that flour. Is it lack of oxygen or is it because of the increase in acidity? Does this perhaps inhibit the amylolytic conversion of ... | CO2
I have always assumed that it's the accumulation of CO2, the product of respiration/fermentation, that limits growth in a static (unstirred) system such as our starter jars and crocks. That is, the bugs transiently "soffocate". Certainly stirring a peaked starter back down -- replacing trapped CO2 with ambient O2... |
How long can you go?
Hello everyone!I've been baking sourdough for a little while following the same basic formula with a 30 minute autolyse (90% white bread flour, 10% rye flour, 68% hydration) after which I then mix in the starter (about 15%) and salt, but I've been playing around with bulk fermentation and final pro... | I don't distinguish between
I don't distinguish between autolyse and ferment, but I can say I have left dough in the fridge for 4 days without issue - I'll make a big batch of dough for pizza and pull of what I need, something came up and I got delayed, the last pizza was 4 days later. I use a very high gluten flour an... |
Proofing Timing
Hello all - I need some clarification on when to begin the measurement of the rising of the dough in order to get the amount of rise that will not result in under or over proofing. I would like to achieve a 25% rise. Should I begin the start of the measurement after the addition of the levain - or - af... | Fermenting starts, at least
Fermenting starts, at least the timing of it, when you add the starter. Enjoy! |
Adapting Yeast Recipes for Sourdough
Hi everyone,Now that I am happy with my sourdough loafs I've started on a new project that's been going on in the back of my head.For years now, I love love love baking with yeast dough and I think I became quite proficient at it. Usually I use fresh bakers yeast but I don't shy awa... | Patryk, you’re off to a good
Patryk, you’re off to a good start. The bread was probably way over fermented. We need to know the temperature in order to better help.Your linked formula calls for 625g flour and your levain used 50g flour. 50/625=.08Your adjusted formula used 8% Percent of Pre-fermented Flour.If you use ... |
Sourdough at scale
I've been making sourdough for a few months now and getting close to something I'm really happy with. So, I'm going to do ~100 loaves for Father's Day in September (down here in Australia) and deliver them to friends and family.I know to scale the recipe up, am renting a commercial kitchen, etc etc.... | Close together you will
Close together you will probably get sticking and lose shape. Bakeries actually do use lots of bannetons. An alternative that could keep your costs down is to do batards or other "rectangular" like shape, and put them on a couche to separate and keep structure. This is how baguettes are done and... |
Third attempt and finally happy :)
Hi All,I wanted to give you an update as you helped me so much <3After my first two failed attempts:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65218/dough-spills-out-too-much-not-just-sourdoughhttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65271/discouraging-oven-spring-issue Today, I finally got the result ... | great-looking loaf!
Thanks for the follow up. Looks great! Congrats! |
Toaster Oven Sourdough - BIG SUCCESS
I've come across a few posts questioning what's the best way to create steam in a toaster oven (or counter top oven) because their dutch ovens do not fit in there. I asked myself, "why not start it in the dutch oven, stove top. then finish it in the small oven?" So, this was my e... | wow
What a clever idea. Great results! I am interested in trying it though I don't have a temperature gun. |
Could This Be Why?
I was reviewing my sourdough documentation, specifically U.S. patent #US3826850A. The patent document describes the traditional San Francisco sourdough process. Excerpts below:"The traditional method for making sourdough bread, otherwise 'known as San Francisco Sourdough Bread, is time consuming, cum... | Hi Dough hooker i think you
Hi Dough hooker i think you have just about provided your own solution instead of over proofing your final dough try overproofing your Sour dough culture build, Quite easy to do really take a small amount of your culture and give it the treatment , feed it instead of 3 times a day once or ... |
Sourdough dense not rising and gummy texture
Hi everyone!I’ve just started making sourdough and every time the bread comes out dense and heavy and when I cut into it, it still feels like it’s a little wet/undercooked inside and there aren’t any air bubbles. The first time I cut into the bread a few minutes after I took... | Please provide some additional details ie,
Recipe, mixing times, BF time, retardation time, shaping technique, baking time, temperature and method. Also provide info about your starter/levain. |
Measuring Percentage of Rise of Bulk Fermentation
Hello - I need some guidance on the timing of the calculation of the rise by marking my proofing container. I am unsure if I should begin the marking at the time of the first stretch/fold during bulk fermentation - or wait until the end of the stretch/fold period which... | When you finish mixing is
When you finish mixing is when you need to make the mark. You can just put it in the container, make the mark, then put it back wherever you normally keep it for stretch and folds. Then put the bowl on your scale, fill with water to the mark, hit tare, then add 25% more water - that should b... |
Problems with Bryan Ford's Coco Rugbrød bread.
Hello again, Just made Bryan Ford's Coco Rugbrød. It seems counter intuitive, but his recipe call for a cold retard of the dough prior to final shaping and baking the next day. So, I followed the recipe anyway, After a 14 hour cold retard (it should have been 12 hour) - bu... | 18 hour ferment+proof seems
18 hour ferment+proof seems like a long time. Overproofed? |
Troubleshooting bulk ferment
I'm fairly new to sourdough bread and need some help troubleshooting.I'm making a recipe I've made every week with good success for the past month. After adding the starter, I came back to start stretch and folds and found that the dough is wetter and smaller in volume than usual. I'm not 1... | weigh the dough now.
The dough should weigh 925 g now. 925, minus what it weighs now, should be equal to the missing flour.Go ahead and add it back in. |
score never opens up wide
I've been baking sourdough quite frequently for 3, 4 months now, 1-3 times a week. After reading lots of posts here, started feeding my starter more frequently, usually once or twice a day, depends on how the starter has grown from the last feeding. I live in NZ, still kinda winter here, kitch... | See this...
post by DanAyo at: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61181/tip-have-faith-oven-springBTW, nice Refrigerator Art. |
Sad beginner with a dense, irregular crumb
I'm a new sourdough baker and not sure where I went wrong with my first loaf. I followed this recipe to a tee: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/Here's my sad, dense crumb: The outside looked better than the inside:I'm wondering if it had something to do... | First of all, good job on
First of all, good job on your first loaf! I'm sure that bread still tasted great.This actually looks a little underfermented to me. An over fermented dough wouldn't have that rise or "oven spring". Slightly underfermented doughs tend to have an irregular crumb and rise, like in your picture. ... |
levain pain de campagne
HI and help!!! I consider myself a fair to good bread baker, having done it for years. I'm into the various starters in Flour Water Salt Yeast by Ken Forkish. I've moved past bigas and poolishes, and am trying to perfect my French loaves using levain. The levain is great: stringy, smelly, b... | Sure sounds like it's over
Sure sounds like it's over fermented/proofed. The obvious thing to do is cut back both and see what happens. Trying to match times in a recipe is usually a not so good idea. As everything is different, any times given are at best a general guideline. Good luck and enjoy! |
Seeking Better Spring & Ear
Hello! I have been baking sourdough about 6 months. I have struggled more in the summer months with the heat affecting bulk.But I am still disappointed, no matter what I do lately, with the middling oven spring and ear. I am keeping dough at about 80-81 degrees for a 3-3.5 hour bulk. 75-78% ... | Everything you are doing
Everything you are doing sounds good. Three areas to look at:are you developing gluten sufficiently well? Have you checked for a good dough windowpane?are you shaping nice and tightly? Check out the King Arthur videosis the banneton the right size - pretty full after final proof?Lance |
Is this mold? (new starter, day 2)
I just started a new starter (ba dum ts) and today when I went to perform the first discard and feed, I noticed a small spot that looked yellowish to me.My process:Day 1:Mix 20 g whole wheat flour + 20 g water (bottled)Day 2 (after 24 hours):Discard all but 20 g and feed 1:1:1 (same f... | Looks like the air bubbles of
Looks like the air bubbles of the yeast and bacteria beginning to eat and thus activate your starter. |
'Gummy' Texture
My bread achieved a decent crumb, OK rise - but the texture is gummy (or some might say - moist). My bread knife has to be cleaned after each slice. Used Tartine recipe, substituted half the whole wheat with spelt, increased the hydration to 80%, used Rubaud mixing method, autolysed for two hours, ret... | Need crumb shot
really need to see the crumb. Could be underdeveloped. Also spelt does not need a higher hydration as it doesn't absorb the water like WW. Spelt can also develop very quickly and over ferment. |
Looking For Things to Work On For Flavor, Sour, Tang, Etc.
Hi All, Noob poster here.I try different recipes, and get bland, not flavorful and not sour bread. Salting correctly. I use digital scale. I retard all my loaves. Question: what areas should I focus on getting correct, or doing carefully, in order to get any fl... | sour & acetic vs lactic
To get more tang, and lactic vs acetic, read the comments by Debra Wink on this thread:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14913/very-liquid-sourdough--Further reading elsewhere:https://truesourdough.com/best-temperature-for-proofing-sourdough-full-guide-how-to/The following is probably the simple... |
Help! Is my starter contaminated?
Heres a picture of my starter with a streak at the top left: https://imgur.com/LfwTVz8I started my first starter two weeks ago, and last week it finally seemed ready and I baked my first loaf which was great. I fed it one more time and waited a few hours till it doubled in volume befor... | What color?
I think I see it, but it's not obvious.What would you say is the color of the streak? |
Sourdough discard ——> active starter?
It appears my sourdough starter that I had been storing in the fridge and feeding weekly has gone missing. Not sure if someone in my family accidentally threw It out .... ? but what I do have left is my container of discard. can I use some of the discard to create new starter!? Or ... | Add a small amount to a lot
Add a small amount to a lot of flour/water - like 10 to 1 ratio - and leave it for a few days, it'll come back. Enjoy! |
Food for thought
This is my stiff rye culture, also known as a Sourdough, Mother, Starter, Levain etc. This is the only culture I maintain. I feed it once a day first thing in the morning and it lives on my kitchen countertop. I follow Jeffrey Hamelman’s feeding regimen for which I have made a quick reference chart bel... | That is similar to how I
That is similar to how I maintained mine, but it had 70% hydration instead. I would dissolve a portion of it completely in warm water (like very light milk) to hydrate a biga to make a dough. I believe this stiff dough method would work great if the starter had matured and strong as I am not su... |
A question (or two) about starter feeding- rye starter
Hello all - I've read/heard conflicting things about what to feed a starter. Mine (Ella) is a couple months old and began as a straight rye starter. Once I felt like it was mature enough, I started doing a 50/50 rye/AP feeding. I've heard you should feed a starter ... | Once a starter is established
Once a starter is established, you can feed it whatever. Doesn't seem as lively - it won't be - the starter may be thinner than normal (if using same feed ratios and schedules), and weight rise as high. I've airways found it beneficial when changing something like food, to work it in littl... |
What is best cover to use on starter
Hi all, I am new to the Forum. I am trying to do my first gluten free starter using Bob's Red Mill Gluten Free 1:1 flour. What is the best cover to use on my jar? Is a coffee filter ok? Thanks so much for all help and suggestions. | Anything that allows gas
Anything that allows gas exchange, but no dirt or flies do drop into the jar. Cheesecloth, coffee filter, kitchen towel, lid loosely on top... |
Starter Rising too quickly
My starter was in the fridge for 2 weeks while I was away, and since doing 2-3 1:1:1 feeds over the past week it's rising very fast, sometimes tripling in 4 hours. My main concern with this is accumulating so much discard, but I'm also curious if a slower rising starter is better. Would a 1... | When its about doubled
after feeding. Stick it into the fridge for a week. :) |
Have you ever had a flour that just doesn't work with your starter?
I bought some new flour and my starter has risen less and less each time. I honestly think its effectively dead. Has anyone experienced this? It's a regular, non organic bread flour from a supermarket. | Don't give up
Try adding a little bit of stoneground rye or whole wheat and refresh the starter several times until it shows signs of life.Good luck. |
Observation: Durum, acid and oxidation
Can durum flour be over-oxidised by hand kneading?Yes. I managed to turn the golden yellow flour near white with hand kneading alone. The reason can also be attributed to the high acidity and firm nature of the my starter at the time. It was too acidic and acidity facilitates oxid... | You've pulled off the near impossible.
With your golden hands turning golden grain white! The carotenoid police already have a APB out on you. Now, about those callouses, did they turn white also?Come ben sai, mi piace molto il grano semola, |
Tip - Have Faith in the Oven Spring
Notice how non impressive this dough looks in the banneton just before taking out to score. It hit the stone looking like a pan cake. It looked disappointing. I now know, my biggest deterrent to oven spring, bloom, and ears was over fermenting. I believe the reason I consistently ove... | I can't wait!
Type like the wind! |
Durum semolina and pistacchio
I enjoy testing flours and ingredients. These days I have been baking with Durum Semolina. I like the sweetness and the crustiness of the bread you can make with this flour.This time we followed this formul | Sourdough: 1% starter 10% stoneground flour (Caputo Tipo1) 10% water. 12-14 hours at room temperature.Final dough: 60% durum semolina (Caputo Semola Rimacinatta), 30% bread flour 65% water 2.2% salt, 10% pistacchio. |
Central Milling flours
About to make an order from these folks...I bake mainly sourdoughs and enriched breads like Challah / Brioche (commercial yeast). I definitely want to try their ABC+ for sourdough, but would it also be good for challah?I've used ABC before for Challah and it comes out fine, not sure how the malt ... | ABC+ Challah
I usually just lurk here, so I'm excited to finally have a contribution! I recently started using ABC+ and have had good results with challah. I cannot compare with regular ABC though. Here's a loaf of ABC+ using mostly Maggie Glezer's "My Challah" recipe (I think I added an extra yolk and did a double egg... |
New problem--my boules come out of the fridge and banneton fine, but seem to spread out instead of going up in the dutch oven.
Why is this? I dont think im doing anything different. Maybe its a new flour? I've even tried reducing the hydration and it still seems to do it. I'm really trying to get some extra height. The... | What does the cross section
What does the cross section of the loaf look like? I had a problem like this. In the oven the loaf would spread out and not rise very well. Cross section of the loaf was dense crumb structure along the bottom with large airy pockets along the top of the loaf. Problem was underproofing. I wa... |
Starter smells eggy and sulfurus
I just made a starter 3 days ago. Day 1 and 2 the starter smelled slightly rancid and fruity, something I expected. But this morning, on day 3, the starter had swelled up to nearly the top of my jar and it smells strongly of sulfur\eggs. I read a few things about it with differing opini... | If this we started using the
If this we started using the sulfur water, start over with "clean" water. |
Local Wildlife
Some sources say that the local wild yeasts and LAB where you keep and refresh your starter are particularly well adapted to that location; if you get a starter from elsewhere, eventually the locals will outcompete the foreigners.I live in San Diego, CA which is generally warm all year round (barring the... | less habitat
and more environment. By that I mean temperature, humidity/hydration and feeding schedule.While how you start your starter will influence what you get, how you keep it going has a HUGE effect on the microflora. |
First sourdough attempt wholemeal rye
My first attempt at sourdough - mixed wholewheat and white with a little rye - I began my starter about 3 weeks ago with kefir, peel from fallen apples and rye | Looks a bit pale.
Any details or comments? |
what is going on with my starter
I haven't seen evidence of my starter rising more than a centimeter. I don't know if I should scrap or try something different.I'm on Day 12. Around Day 6 I did try 110 degrees water and I think I killed it a bit, but I thought it would've recovered by now. To be completely transparent... | Well, first, don't get
Well, first, don't get discouraged, these things take time, especially using bleached white flour. I it does work, I've done many, but it will take longer then normal, usually a lot longer. Bubbling and rising at first (probably 2 or 3 days in) is normal with this type of flour. It is bacterial a... |
Starter has developed cheese smell
I've been baking with my starter for the last three years. I do the same thing every time I feed it and either store it in the fridge or on my worktop with a lid on. About 4 weeks ago I decided to start making kombucha and whilst it takes great, I've decided not to continue with it.... | I would
carefully take out some starter that looks healthy, transfer it to a clean jar and give it a good feed.Buckwheat does have a "different" smell to wheat and can turn a funny colour. If you did by mistake switch the flours then in all probability it's this. But to be on the safe side give some healthy starter som... |
My starter is having multiple cycles of rise and fall
I'm feeding my 3 weeks old starter twice a day. My kitchen is around 80ºF, and my mixture is 80g white organic flour, 20g rye flour, 16g mature starter, and 100g room temperature water. Six hours after feeding the starter is resting at its peak for just half an hou... | Mine does the same
I'm new to sourdough (and baking bread in general), but in the short time I've been doing it, I've noticed the same behavior from my starter. It rises to around 3x it's volume (judging by the sides of the jar) in around 4-6 hours, then collapses, then goes up again but not as high. It seems to me t... |
Lack of oven-spring ...
Hi,I have been baking sourdough bread at home for a couple of years, but everything was "by eye", without measuring "exactly" anything. But I was never quite satisfied with the flavor - too dull. So I found this site, created a new starter following the pineapple juice method, and this time ar... | Cool longer and bulk rise shorter.
let it cool longer say 2ours then the inside should be less wet. shen colling down it is still cooking and cut it to early. For beter ovenspring bulk rise shorter. Also a stronger starter gives a beter ovenspring.I did take advice from Sune from foodgeek.dk and buildup my feeding sch... |
Proteolytic starter ruining high-hydration whole wheat dough?
Hi all, I didn't know whether to post this in whole grain or starters. I usually post in whole grain, and it's a whole-grain starter. But this question is all about the starter itself...So I made another run at the Theresa Greenway 100% hydration 100% whole ... | Photos?
Its possible your starter may be over fermented but without photos it's not possible to diagnose. |
hooch turned white and solid?
Dear all,I stored my starter in the fridge after a fresh feed 6 weeks ago. I checked in passing about 4 weeks ago and it had hooch on it, dark liquid, which I've seen and dealt with before so I wasn't concerned and moved on. However when I went back to feed it this morning, about 6 weeks, ... | Likely mold
But don’t be too concerned. It happens. Just scoop it off and use something from the bottom to feed a new starter. Mold can definitely grow at fridge temperatures. And it can develop quickly. 6 weeks is a long time unfed. I usually feed refrigerated starter once a week. Anything over two weeks is in rescue ... |
Sourdough rolls
Haven't posted in a long long time. Just sharing a few sourdough rolls I was experimenting with this weekend. Not super pretty, but really tasty, light, and fluffy rise. | Looks good to me
What is the topping? It's not just sesame seeds, is it? |
Dough breaks before second rise is finished
Hi folks,Even though I peaked in here a few times over the last couple of active sourdough years, this is my first post. So far I was able to always find an answer to my problems, but this one is giving me a head ace since a while and digging in my personal recipe and procedu... | A couple of guesses
2 guesses.acid over loadtoo much water on the skin before baking.Like I said, just a couple of guesses. It must be super frustrating!Danny |
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